ENCORE: Fuel: You Probably Need More Food Than You Think You Do

This episode is about fuelling your body through your exercise. Host Louise Minchin speaks to Renee McGregor, a leading Sports dietitian, specialising in Eating Disorders & author, Jesse Lambert-Harden, a nutrition expert & fuel coach for Her Spirit, Jane Haden, a Her Spirit community member and Holly Woodford, Her Spirit co-founder. In this episode you will learn:

• Why carbohydrates are so misunderstood.
• When to fuel.
• The importance of your salt balance.

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Transcript

Louise Minchin: 

Hello and welcome to the Her Spirit podcast. I am Louise Minchin and every month as lots of you will know we sit down together and talk about the small changes we can make to our lives that can really lead to big results. If you're new to the podcast, a very warm welcome, do feel free by the way to subscribe and also say how nice and how brilliant this podcast is because we love that kind of stuff but we do know that the Her Spirit community love this podcast. And we really appreciate you listening to us. If you're new, as I said, very warm welcome. 

Do you look back over our other podcasts as well because we've dealt with so many things over the last two years or so, and I'm sure you'll find lots of things, different things, women that you might be interested in hearing from or subjects that you might want to hear talked about. So go have a look through our back catalogue as well. So Her Spirit is a community of women, just like you and we come together to help and encourage each other to get more active and feel stronger. And my goodness me, we've done that over the last few years. To feel happier, to feel healthier, do come and join us and get lots more information at herspirit.co.uk. Or you can download the app as well. If you are already active, you'll find lots of resources and plans to get you to the next level. 

But if you, for example, maybe haven't got the bike out of the garage for years. Maybe it doesn't even have any tyres that work or no gears, whatever it is or perhaps you just started to walk or to run as well. There's lots out there for you. You're part of our community at herspirit.co.uk and there’s lots of inspiration and support and absolutely no judgment. That's really important. There are lots of women of all ages and abilities wherever you live, who can help you feel stronger. You can have conversations with them come and say hello at herspirit.co.uk or head to facebook.com/HerSpiritUK or search Her Spirit on Instagram. So we are going to have a really good chat today. It's all about fuelling, it's about nutrition and how important food is, what role it plays when we're active and how to fuel ourselves for any challenge we want to take on. I've been doing endurance sport for many years now and I still, I'm gonna put my hand up here and say, I would like to say that I'm pretty clueless apart from thinking that I need to eat protein after doing exercise. And I'm looking around our podcast guests to seeing if I might be doing the right thing, who knows. I'm absolutely really pretty clueless actually about how much we, I mean, I don't even know what a portion of protein is, so that's where I'm starting this podcast, but I hope some of you are with me on that. So what we're gonna talk about is what should we change? 

What we eat should we more, should we eat less? , what kind of things are important. We've got lots of comments on this throughout the community and we've got some brilliant guests over the next sort of 30 minutes or so. 

Holly, if you've listened to the podcast she's co-founder of Her Spirit and I know actually Holly that this is particularly close to your heart. Isn't it? Do you wanna kind of give us a bit of insight? I mean, I don't know the answer to this question actually, so why, why is this so important to you? 

Holly Woodford: 

I'm absolutely passionate about this topic. And I know a lot of the posts that we do are very much about Mel who's my other co-founder, and I being really physically active, particularly at the moment with our Lakes to London challenge, but the fuel and fuelling has always been a real passion of mine because I always say I've spent the last 30 years on a zero calorie diet. That's how I grew up. I grew up with the information that if you eat less calories, don't eat fat, then you'll stay thin. And that's the way to be. So it's probably taken the last two or three years working with Jesse and a few other nutritionists to help me understand actually what good fuelling looks like. We call it fuelling in Her Spirit, cause it's all about fuelling you for that happy and healthy kind of lifestyle. And that's different for everybody. I'm now on a journey having lost a couple of stone having learned the real basics of how to fuel. So some of the things you talked about there, Louise, about portion sizing, what does a healthy plate look like? And now I'm taking that step forward and and looking at how I fuel myself through endurance activities, which has been a real eye opener. 

Louise Minchin: 

Yeah, I'm sure. I will come to you for all of that. And I'm just really aware actually, before we sort of head out on this fuelling journey that obviously this, I imagine, and we've got experts on the call here, could be quite triggering for people. So let's just put that out there. If you think it's going to do that for you, maybe hold off and I'm not an expert, so let's get the experts. So today on this podcast, we've got Holly Woodford who I've already introduced. We've got some amazing guests as well. I'm just gonna give you a brief introduction then I'm gonna talk to them all briefly. We've got Jesse Lambert Harden. She's a Her Spirit fuel coach, I understand guru. Jesse we’ll come to you in a minute and we've got Jane Hayden who is taking on and we already heard, Holly already mentioned this epic Lakes to London challenge. And Holly will talk about that as well, but Jane, you're taking it on virtually and I'll come to what you're doing because it's honestly mind blowing and totally brilliant. And the go to on this podcast is Renee McGregor. And I thank you so much for being part 

of this, cause I think it's really important to deal with that sort of head on. I said about triggering right at the beginning, you are a leading sports and eating disorder specialist, dietician, 20 years experience, let's go right in at the beginning. What is the first thing we need to remember when it comes to fuelling and food? 

Renee McGregor: 

So I guess the first thing I always say to people is that you probably need more than you think you do. You've already sort of mentioned that we live in a society that constantly tells us to move more and eat less. And actually when you look at physiological studies that doesn't work as Holly has found herself. So I think particularly when you're doing endurance sport and I work with a lot of endurance athletes, I'm an ultra runner myself. So I actually have to think about fuelling quite a lot personally when I'm out on my races and runs as well. It's a lot more than you assume it's going to be. And I think one of the challenges women have particularly is that depending on where you are, in your lifespan that can change and your needs change as well. Cause when you were younger, you're gonna have your menstrual cycle potentially affecting you. And kind of knowing how to fuel around that is really important. And as you get older into your sort of forties and fifties, you start to hit kind of the perimenopause and the menopause. And of course that then has its own challenges. And I think there's so much poor information out there on how you should fuel endurance exercise. And a lot of it tends to stem from image rather than what your body actually needs. So my one bit of advice is you probably need more than you think you do. 

Louise Minchin: 

I mean that's a great piece of advice and having done a lot of endurance things over the years. I think I, that is worth learning, at least I've kind of just by experience because if you don't have enough fuel and you're doing for an example, an endurance event, you're just not gonna finish. Are you Renee? 

Renee McGregor: 

No, not at all. And I think that's, I always see that that's the kind of difference between somebody finishing strong, somebody finishing and somebody basically not finishing. When you do, particularly when you start doing more ultra distance endurance events, like Jane and Holly have taken on, there's a lot of mental resilience that is needed, but if you don't fuel the body to maintain the energy that the body needs to kind of do what you're asking of it, then that mental resilience is also gonna be affected. I think this is something that people don't realise is that there's a lot of fear around carbohydrate and yet carbohydrate is so incredibly important for endurance athletes and endurance individuals, but not just for the fact that it delivers energy to the working muscles, but also that it delivers energy to the brain. And that brain is really critical in terms of making decisions and that sort of central nervous system. So it it's really important that people don't skimp on their carbs. And I know that often it's a bit of a taboo subject. And particularly when we talk about endurance, there's been a lot of back and forth with low fat, high carb. But actually fundamentally when you look at all the research out there, it tips in the favour of, you need a lot of carbs. If you want to be efficient, if you want to be economic and you want to make it to the end. 

Louise Minchin: 

Okay. And I'm gonna ask really basic questions. Okay. Because I started out this podcast saying I don't know much so carbs. You mean let's just talk actual, real food. What are we talking about? 

Renee McGregor: 

So we're talking about oats, pasta, bread, rice, potatoes, cereals. That's what we're really talking about. I think where it often gets confused is a lot of people will associate vegetables and fruit with carbohydrate. Now they are carbohydrate. I'm not gonna dismiss that, but they have a very, very high fibre content. They have a very high fibre content because they are basically cell wall, which means you don't digest them very well. So yes, they're useful for individuals in terms of good digestion and good gut health. But they're also very useful for people who may need to lose weight or are more sedentary. But when you are very, very active, they're not gonna deliver the energy that you need. So relying on them as your source of carbs is not gonna be helpful. It's one of the biggest mistakes I see in my clinic is individuals that will have like, butternut squash and carrot for their carbohydrate portion. 

And then they wonder why they can't finish their training, but also that their hormones have become completely, unregulated and periods, they're all over the shop. And in some cases, periods have been lost and they're getting highly injured. So I'm not saying we shouldn't eat vegetables. That's not the message there at all. It's really important that we include fruit and vegetables. But when you are doing endurance events, you need to be mindful that when we talk about carbohydrate, we are talking about the complex carbohydrates, like, oats, pasta, bread, potatoes, rice, grains, those sorts of things. And actually when you are doing actual endurance events during those events, you're gonna need some very easily digestible carbohydrates. And that might be in the form of fruit, but that might also be in the form of sports products. It might be drinks, it might be gels. It might be sweets. It might be real food depending on what your event is and what your outcome is as well. What are you looking for? Like, if you are running a fast marathon race, then actually you probably need more gels and drinks because they're very easy to digest while you're on the move at that very fast pace. But if you're doing more of a mountain trail slower event, and it's more about getting to the end, you might be able to take on real food along the way. So it, it does very much depend, but the key thing there is that you need to make sure that you practice it in your training and you don't just do it on the day of the race or the day of the event, because that's where things can go pretty wrong. If you haven't trained your gut to accept food while it's moving. 

Louise Minchin: 

I've done a lot of failing like that, to be honest with you, I remember and also there is that thing about don't change anything on race day. And I made a very, very classic error where I was in America and I'd run out of everything. And I'd basically all I had was water and I was way beyond any, I'd use up all the fuel I had in my body. And they offered me Gatorade. You'll love this. And because I didn't know what it was, I didn't have it actually, Gatorade was probably exactly what I needed, which was like a sugary drink, which would've made my experience a whole different thing. So honestly, from that answer, I've learned more than I've learned in the last 10 years. So thank you. Just quickly to you Jesse, I'm sort of professing a load of ignorance here and there's a lot of help isn't there on that you give and the Her Spirit app, for example, around, what is a carbohydrate? What should we be eating? 

Jesse Lambert-Harden: 

Yeah. I was brought in actually to Her Spirit to develop, just to develop a course. We have a program and it's called our 'Learn to Fuel’ program and it's six weeks long and it's really about nailing the foundations. And this is where I sort of, this is where my passion lies is that if you can't get into the specifics of endurance or activity until you understand the foundations of nutrition and how to implement it practically and how you can make it easy for yourself only then when you've got the foundations, can you start to build from there and part of it as well is creating sort of a mindset, changing this sort of dieting mindset mentality to more of a health based one. And then a performance based one, because I've got qualifications, but I've also got history of I've “REDS” in the past, which is a relative energy deficiency of sport. We'll probably talk about that a bit later, but where I fell into the trap of over exercising and under-eating, probably as a result of not really understanding what I was doing, but also issues with societal pressures of being thin. I guess, even though I've never had a weight problem per se, but that's a product of your environment. So within the Her Spirit community, I feel a very strong passion to enable women to fuel themselves in a way that makes them feel good. 

Louise Minchin: 

Thank you. And, it sounds like the first thing I need to do after I've done this podcast is to go and do the course. So you've done a really great advert. You've got at least one more person in and that's on the Her Spirit app. So Jesse Lambert Harden, you are well placed and thank you so much. Holly, so listening to all of this and for somebody who you've obviously been quite honest on the podcast. So what, what other questions do you think we need to answer and get particularly from Renee as well? 

Holly Woodford: 

Well, I think picking up on I think what Jesse said there, and Jesse's actually working with myself, Mel, and also one of our community members Sarah Williams, who are doing Lakes to London. She's actually helping us with our fuelling strategy. And even though I knew this from working with Jessie for the last two years actually getting the basics right, is still a really big part. The conversations that we're actually having every day picking up on Renee's point actually about carbohydrates. I think I contacted Jessie and said, I'm really struggling. I'm feeling really fatigued. I've lost my appetite. And she asked me the question, how much carbs have you got on your plate? And interestingly enough, I was counting veg and salad and things like that, I'll have a lot of, as my carbohydrate. Psychologically getting over the fact of adding more than one carbohydrate to my plate, I realised was still a problem for me actually through this process. 

So I'm really interested in, how do we change some of the societal norms? How do we help people understand what is good information out there? And then people are able to make their own choices. I think that's really, it's a big part of what we do at Her Spirit is giving people really high quality information and allowing them to make the choice that's right for them. So I'm interested in Renee’s take on that because I think that's one of the biggest problems that we've got and it's something Jesse and I have talk about all the time. 

Renee McGregor: 

Okay. So yeah, I mean, this is an area of massive passion for me. Like this is what I talk about all day long. And I guess, so I wanna pick up a little bit first on what Jesse said about “REDS”. Cause I think it's important that we explain what “REDS” is cause then it kind of fits into the societal picture a little bit more. So “REDS”, for those of you who don't know, as Jesse said is... 

Louise Minchin:
I've never heard of it before today. So go for it. 

Renee McGregor: 

So “REDS” as Jesse said, is relative energy deficiency in sport. And what that means is there's, there's not enough energy in the body, in the system to support all the work that the body needs to do, where work is your training, but it's also all movement. So it includes that dog walk you might do, or the commute to the pool or whatever it is that you are doing and you don't consider as training, but it is work. So it's all the movement you do, but it's also all the biological processes that go on within the body. So it's your heart beating, your brain, working your bone density being put down. It's your digestive system. It's all these things that are going on at a cellular level within our body that we don't even consider. 

We just take for granted. So what happens is the way in which we've evolved as human beings is that our body will always prioritise energy for movement. So it will take what it needs for your daily movement, whatever that might be. And that for a lot of people, if you're training hard or you're doing some of the events like Holly and Jane are doing where you'll be doing a lot of training, plus you've got the big output at the end for the event, plus you may well have just a general, very busy life. So all the energy I eat will go to that first. It has to go to that first to deliver the body with what it needs to move. And then only if I've got enough energy left over, will it then allow things like my reproduction system to work well, my brain to function properly, the repair and the recovery to happen. So actually when you are very active, your fuelling intake is huge. And what we see in REDS is there's two types of REDS. There's involuntary REDS, and then there's voluntary REDS or intentional REDS and unintentional REDS and unintentional REDS is when you fall into it completely by accident, you just don't appreciate how much fuel you need and you just don't quite meet your requirements. 

And what will happen is you might find that you're not getting the adaptations that you expect. You are not feeling as recovered between your training sessions, you're feeling fatigue like Holly was saying. You might find that perhaps as a female, you might notice some changes to your menstrual cycle or you might find that you're having recurrent injuries and illnesses and these symptoms are all fixable by basically ensuring that you then get enough of the energy that you need and the timing of the energy around your training. And then we have what we call intentional REDS which is fundamentally an eating disorder and disordered eating in the sense that it's a conscious choice to restrict your energy intake and or over exercise as a means of probably thinking that if you were leaner, if you were smaller, you'll be faster. 

You'll be more successful, you'll be more acceptable even. And it fits into that quite toxic sports culture in a way that we hear all the time. I see it every single day. I have worked with five clients today, all female, all ranging in age from actually 13 up to 25, all trapped in this same need to feel like they have to look a certain way for their sport, which has then gone terribly wrong. Because what happens is the restriction and the over exercising not only puts your body into this kind of down regulation that we've spoken about with unintentional REDS but it also starts to affect you psychologically because you are, you are fundamentally working with an eating disorder and we know that an eating disorder is a coping mechanism. People very much misunderstand what an eating disorder is, but an eating disorder is a method of avoiding difficult emotions and difficult situations within your life when life feels chaotic and messy, when you don't feel good enough, when you have low worth, when you feel you have to attain worth through achievement or your body composition, these are the things that drive you to then have this very dysfunctional relationship with food exercise and your body. 

What is it that you have learned through media? What is it that you have subliminally absorbed that has informed you to say that eating sweet potato or a potato or a porridge or whatever is bad for you? What is it? And that's where it all comes from. I always say to my clients is if it sounds too good to be true, it's probably too good to be true. And actually nothing's changed in the last 20, 30 years when it comes to nutrition. Like when you look at sort of the general wellness plate, it always includes carbs and vegetables and fruit and protein and dairy and the eggs and it always includes those. And then there's always still a small portion that is actually saturated fats and sugars, because nothing is off limits. It's just, you have to change the proportions based on who you are and what you're doing and what you're trying to achieve. What you do here at Her Spirit is amazing because you give women back something, you empower them to take responsibility for their bodies, for what they can do and show them that actually what your body looks like is the least interesting thing about them. It's actually what they can do that is more interesting. 

Louise Minchin: 

Ah, thank you for saying nice things. And thank you because I think there's so much depth to what, what you've said as well. And just to remind everybody there is so much information you can get brilliant tips by heading to Her Spirit.co.uk and download and check out the Her Spirit app to find out all you need to know about fuelling yourself and learning how to fuel. I am going to be doing that six week program. I'm hoping that it's really simple, Jesse, is it nice because, because it simple is best for me. Is it nice, nice and straightforward? 

Jesse Lambert-Harden: 

It is. And that's the purpose, it really is the foundations of nutrition. And then once you've done that, then you can move on to the, what people might look towards being the more sexy stuff around fuelling your endurance. 

Louise Minchin: 

Sexy stuff? I've never thought of endurance fuelling as sexy until now, but I mean, I just look at it as an excuse and they're probably completely wrong to eat Snickers. But anyway so I just want to just quickly pick up with you as well, Jane, because we've mentioned you and you've been sitting patiently listening to all of us on this podcast. You're one of the community members, you alongside many others in the community are taking part in this Lakes to London challenge. So Lakes to London, Holly, three of you are doing in actual real life and you're going, tell me which lake you're swimming across again? 

Holly Woodford: 

We’re swimming five kilometers across Windermere. And then we are cycling 450. 

Louise Minchin:
I'm laughing because it's just brilliant. 

Holly Woodford: 

453 kilometers a short cycle to London. And the kicker is we have to make it in time to run the London marathon, which I think will start at about 10 o'clock in the morning on the Sunday. So we start the Friday, we should get there on the Sunday. 

Louise Minchin: 

So I mean it's a monumental task and Renee will come to you about how to feel for that. And not everybody is gonna do that kind of extreme endurance sport. Jane, you're taking it on like lots of others in a virtual way. What are you doing? 

Jane Haden:
 I am cycling on Swift 500 kilometers over the three days that Holly me she's doing the live challenge. 

Louise Minchin: 

Okay. Swift is it's a virtual platform a bit like there are other ones available. Peloton might be an example, but Swift, I mean, I'm a massive fan. Everybody who's listened to this podcast will know of Swift, but so you're doing 500 kilometers, on an indoor bike essentially over three days. I mean, it's again, when you told me that I was just like, what has possessed you to do this? It's brilliant by the way. But I mean, I've done a lot of miles on my indoor bike. It's very challenging. 

Jane Haden: 

Yeah. Well, I thought that I actually really wanted to be able to do the live challenge maybe and do the cycle, but my diary wouldn't allow me to do that actually, cause I was already in London. So I wouldn't have had time. So I decided to try and do the challenge over three days instead. And could do that at home. 

Louise Minchin: 

So Renee let's just there are lots of it's amazing what's going on in the community as well, because I think, and this'll be out of date by the time I said this, but Holly and Mel aiming to try and raise a £100,000 for it's all about breast cancer, isn't it Holly? And you've done £35,000 already, which is staggering. So thank you everybody, by the way, who's taken part. And I know by the time the podcast goes out, that'll be really out of date won't it? Which is great. So keep, keep doing it. Okay, so Renee these are extraordinary challenges aren't they? And lots of people in the community are doing it in different ways. What is the kind of key message that you want to give to everybody who's taking part and whether they're doing 30 K or the full 500, what is your kind of key message? 

Renee McGregor: 

I think, firstly, I'd say don't leave it too late to start fuelling. There's this kind of belief that, because we hear about our bodies have got enough fuel to last 90 minutes. People seem to leave it till 90 minutes to actually start fuelling. And it's like, no, at that point you're pretty much empty. So there'd be no point in doing that. So I always say start fuelling within the first 20 to 30 minutes and ideally you are looking at figures depending on the distance that you are going for, but let's talk about the longer distances, the Holly and Jane distances. You're basically looking at sort of somewhere between 60 and 90 grams of carbs per hour. And a lot of that you're gonna have to practice in during your training, because as we said earlier, you shouldn't try anything new and also you need to train your gut and you need to work out what's gonna work for you. Because again, personally, as someone who's done a lot of ultra distance events and also who worked with a lot of people that a lot of athletes that do ultras and events, the biggest challenge I find is that you get taste fatigue. So I'm heading off to Verona in two weeks to work with the GB 24 hour team. And they basically run round a circuit of 1.4 kilometers, for 24 hours. Because that's what they do. And my job is to maintain their nutrition through that 24 hours. And they've sent me their plans. A lot of the athletes have sent me their nutrition plans as to what they're gonna do. And the thing I've gone back with constantly each one of them is when you get bored and what about something savoury? 

Cause they've all gone for the classic lots of sweet stuff because it's sugar, it's energy and it's also, what's generally available from a sports nutrition point of view and it's like, well actually you're gonna get bored of that. You’re gonna need something savoury. You're gonna have to think about things that you look forward to eating. So actually Louise's nothing wrong with looking forward to that Snickers bar. It's one of my go to when I'm doing events is my Snickers bar is the last thing I like to eat. Cause it's something I really look forward to it. So it's that combination. I think particularly when you're doing something like Holly, you need to be thinking about obviously 5k in the water. You're not gonna really be able to get a huge amount of fuel in during that time, unless you've got a boat with you that you can take sips of energy drink, would be the easiest thing for you to do, which I'm hoping and assuming that's there in the, in the plan? She's giving me the thumbs up, so that's a good sign. And then basically it's a bit like when you were doing a triathlon that transition from water to biking is a really good opportunity to be making sure you're getting that fuelling in while you're getting your, your cleats on and you're jumping on the bike and that can be a bar or a gel or something even more substantial if you feel you have the time. 

Louise Minchin: 

Just a couple of things. So I've done both Norseman and Patagonman, which are extreme triathlons. So Ironman distance and the biggest learning I had and it's really interest that you brought this up really was exactly around that around taste fatigue and my husband who, cause on those events, they you have to have your supporter who does all your fuel and everything. He's absolutely brilliant, he makes me assorted sandwiches. Like I don't even know what's in them. They've got anything from honey to Marmite, to cheese, to ham and he just gives me random sandwiches and I don't care what they are, but what I do really care about is that they're different and it has made such a massive difference Renee to my whole kind of like I dunno just the enjoyment, it sounds ridiculous, but they're brilliant. And then I have like a snack pack in my bike, which is as everything from cut up Snickers bars to a chocolate to cashew nuts. 

And it's the variety which I have found absolutely makes a difference Renee. 

Renee McGregor: 

Yeah. 100%. And like, my last race was about six weeks ago and I did the Spine sprint, which is quite a tough race. Cause you basically have no crew and no checkpoints and you have to carry everything yourself. But I found bagels were really useful. So that can be a really good option like Marmite bagels. There's a new Marmite, it's not new, but I've only just recently found it, the Marmite and peanut butter mix. That's really great cause it's kind of that sort of really quite salty, but it gives you a little bit of a crunch as well. And you got that kind of peanut you got a little bit of fat in there, a little bit of protein in there. So I find that really good cheese sandwiches are always really good for me as well. I think it's about that variety, it’s really key because you will get bored and the other big thing, the other really big and important thing, which I'm sure Jesse has absolutely nailed into you is your salt balance. So when you are doing these very, very long distance and I appreciate this is kind of still in fairly cool weather, but you are, you will be sweating. You will be losing a lot of electrolytes. And so replacing that in the right amount of fluid and this is where people often go wrong because they think, oh yeah, I'll take a few electrolyte tabs and that'll be enough. And as soon as your salt balance goes off, that's when you start to get that wishy washy stomach, that's when you start to feel nauseous, that's when you can't take fuel back on. 

So your salt balance is really, really important. And what we normally recommend in these kind of ultra distance type events is it's difficult because your sodium losses are very individual and they're very genetic. And unless you do a sweat test, you can't really work out the exact amount that you are losing. But as a rule of thumb, we generally say try to maintain around 700 to 900 milligrams of sodium per litre of fluid, which is the important bit. So this is where I find a lot of athletes will go wrong. They'll keep popping S caps, but they're only drinking 500 mils of water. So they either over salt and then you end up with diuresis and diarrhoea or they under salt and they end up with nausea and a wishy washy stomach. So getting your salt balance is gonna be really, really, really important as well. So sitting down with Jesse and kind of looking at what that looks like and how much fuelling, how much fluid you're gonna be taking and adjusting that. 

Louise Minchin: 

Gosh, there's so much to think about isn't there. Jesse, any kind of final, I mean we've, again, we do, I love these podcasts, but we always there's always so much more to say, so we'll have to do another, can we do another nutrition podcast at different point, Holly, cause this, I feel has been very much kind of focused in a good way. A lot of it on about endurance sport. And I know lots of people listening who probably don't want to know exactly about the levels you're doing are really quite out there but this is endurance athlete talking. So can you promise, we'll do another one because it's beens hugely helpful? 

Holly Woodford: 

100% and we've got loads of questions that the community have been asking actually want to have answers to. I knew that we would end up with more questions probably even coming out of this conversation. So for sure, we definitely wanna do it again. 

Louise Minchin:
 Are there any quick ones we should go through? 

Holly Woodford: 

I think some of the themes are for people. I think probably again, some of the basics is not knowing actually how much to fuel when you're doing a reasonable amount of activity. So we're obviously talking about endurance, but for people who are going out and doing maybe a long bike ride exercising the next day, they're not quite sure how much carbohydrates but also not how not sure how much protein they should have. So I think there's generally some just lack of sort of knowledge about how to do that. 

Louise Minchin: 

Renee is there a short answer to that? There probably isn't is there, but can, what would your heads up be? 

Renee McGregor: 

Yeah. So what we normally say, if you're doing about, if you're doing one to three hours of exercise a day or movement a day, then you're basically aiming for around five to seven grams of carbohydrate per kilogram of body weight. And as, just as a sort of side, when you are an older athlete. And I, unfortunately I put myself in this category too, cause basically it means once you're over 40. But once you're an older athlete, actually your protein requirements do go up quite not significantly, but you do need more protein in that recovery phase. And you might find that actually having regular protein intakes throughout the day in the form of things like eggs and Greek yogurt and chicken and tofu and things like that, that can be, we're just having this like almost like bowls of it throughout the day can be a really good way of helping to encourage repair and recovery and just general maintain lean muscle mass. Because unfortunately, as we get older, we tend to lose a little bit of lean muscle mass even though we are training hard. So it's kind of keeping on top of that. 

Louise Minchin: 

So when, so go back to my original point about the protein I wasn't entirely wrong, then I'm glad to hear it. 

Renee McGregor: No, not at all. Louise Minchin: 

Good, good, good. Okay, well listen, I think we we've talked about so much I just kind of would go around the room really for kind of like final thoughts and if you can make them short thoughts everybody, cause I know there's so much to think about. But yeah, to everybody particularly who's taking part in Lakes to London and as I say, whether that's you're doing 10 K or 500 K , what is the last kind of thing Jesse, and I'm gonna start with you to think about when it comes to fuelling / nutrition/ food, what, what would your kind of top tip be? 

Jesse Lambert-Harden: 

Well, I'm gonna go back to saying what I said at the beginning, which was learn foundations, learn the foundations first, when you’ve built the foundations, you can then move into looking at the timing of your meals or around your workouts. You can look towards using sports supplements where necessary. But also looking towards trusted sources of information. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. I would definitely uphold that message as well. But I think it's very easy for everyone to overcomplicate things. So if you can get those foundations right and move up and then when you've got questions, you can just seek help with those specific questions because you can't ask questions unless you've tried. 

Louise Minchin:
 Thank you. I'm gonna do the course Jesse. So Holly, 

Holly Woodford: 

Yeah, picking up on Jesse’s point. What I've really learned is that eating healthfully is really easy. It's really simple. And I think the challenge is trying to find that information and that's what we've tried to provide at Her Spirit. And particularly through Learn to Fuel there's about three or four things you need to know for a healthy plate and what should be on that plate portion sizing. The fact that I've always said that not all calories are made equal, probably a completely other podcast, but the whole conversation about calories on menus and do people really understand the difference between the different calories? So because a 200 calorie meal might look more attractive in the moment, is it still going to sustain you an hour or two later? So maybe that higher calorie nutritionally more valuable food is actually better. So I think there's lots to learn here and it's actually pretty simple. And I hope that if you're interested, you can come and join us. You can also speak directly to Jesse. That's one of the benefits of Her Spirit. We have really, really high quality coaches who can cut through all the rubbish and can give you the information that you need. 

Louise Minchin: 

Jane my top tip to you, by the way, when you're on Swift, I know you might know this already, cause you'll need a place to put your fuel. I put my ironing board next to my bike and I know lots of people have copied me doing this with all the different foods on the ironing board. So that's my top tip. What, what, what have you taken away from this podcast? 

Jane Haden: 

One, I need to go and do Jesse's course as well. And definitely like the need to practice. 

Louise Minchin: 

Okay. Renee honestly you've, you've given so much information there it’ s absolutely brilliant. And the kind of key takeaway do you think for all of us? 

Renee McGregor: 

I think you need to find your own way. Don't just do what your best friend's doing or what your training buddy's doing. Because I think we tend to do that comparison thing and actually it's about finding your own way. But really, really, if you're doing something big, like these guys are practice, practice, practice is what I'll say. It's really important. 

Louise Minchin: 

Again, to me if anybody can take away from this though, it doesn't have to be all about gels and stuff real food for me, that's on the endurance events. Real food is what I crave is what I need. And yeah, you've gotta just discover what your, what your version of that is. Oh, you’re brilliant. Thank you so much, everybody I've really enjoyed this podcast. I've learned an enormous amount. It's almost made my head ache, but in a really good way, I'm kind of gonna, I'm gonna go and cook my dinner now. So and I'll think of you while I'm doing that. I thank you so much. Renee, Jesse, Holly and Jane for taking time to talk to me today, don't forget you can follow the progress of Mel and Holly particularly and give support and all the rest of it at facebook.com/Her Spirit UK we'll post updates too at instagram.com/Her Spirit UK. 

I mean, I'm just absolutely in awe of all of you. I know I was there at the beginning when the idea happened, but gosh, you have left me literally sitting on my static bike. So well done. Have you been inspired? There are lots of brilliant tips, piece of advice and challenges you can sign up for at all levels, from beginners to the rest of it to get all the support you need, just head to herspirit.co.uk and join the conversation as well. As you, as we've said, you can talk to Jesse, you can talk to Holly whoever it is you want to, you feel you need to talk to, you can do that, we’ll post links in the episode notes. And we'll also add a link of where you can read a full transcription as well, because I was writing notes. I'm gonna go to the transcription of the episode as well. In case you want to check back on any of the advice it was particularly for me around how many grams of protein per no. How many grams of kilo see I've got it wrong. Renee? Tell me what it was. It was how many grams of carbohydrate per kilogram was it? 

Renee McGregor:
 How many grams of carbohydrate per kilo. 

Louise Minchin: 

You're absolutely brilliant. Renee. Thank you very much indeed. With that I thank you so much for listening. I'm Louise Minchin the next episode of the Her Spirit podcast will be arriving a week later than normal on Monday, October the 10th, because we're gonna chat to Holly, Mel and Sarah to find out how they got on taking the Lakes to London live, which I mean, I just can't believe Holly. This is the last conversation we have on a podcast before you do it. Absolutely amazing. It is 500 kilometers in three days. And ending up with the London marathon remember together, well, you've got this, we are right behind you. Okay. Don't forget to sign up to Lakes to London as well. You can take part in the virtual challenge and help as well to get to that £100,000 of fundraising for breast cancer. 

Now, I mean the ambition of Her Spirit knows no ends. I know this will just be the start of probably Lakes to London, mark too next year. And I can see you shaking your head, Holly, oh gosh, I've learned so much. Thank you so much. I hope you have as well, listening as well. Do please subscribe to us send us a little review as well. We'd love to hear from you and I cannot wait for the next conversation. It just remains to say Holly, Mel, Sarah, and you Jane. Massive, massive, good luck. You are incredible.