'It Made Me Realise How Quickly Things Can Go Wrong' - Our Lakes To London Story

This week is all about the EPIC Lakes to London challenge for Breast Cancer Now.  Host Louise Minchin speaks to Her Spirit Co-Founders Mel & Holly about their experience over the three days of intense exercise. Dr Liz O'Riordan, Breast Surgeon, endurance athlete and Lakes to London fundraiser joins the chat along with Breast Cancer Now CEO Delyth Morgan to remind us what the money raised will do for breast cancer patients.

Listen now for an incredible story of inspiration.

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Transcript

Louise Minchin: 

I have so been looking forward to this Her Spirit  podcast. I mean, we've done some amazing podcasts in the past, but this is going to be beyond epic. This is all about Lakes to London. Now, this started as an idea that Mel, Holly, and myself had when we were on doing a virtual bike ride together some months ago. I'm just looking at Holly, how many months ago was this? Was this like January or something?

Holly Woodford:
 It was January. It was freezing. We were in the garage. 

Louise Minchin: 

I was in my sort of sitting room that is not a sitting room anymore because it's got my bike in it. Holly and I had a conversation about the London Marathon and this and that, and wouldn't it be amazing to do it? And why don't we invent a challenge. Anyway, they went on to invent this epic challenge. It's called Lakes to London. We'll get the details of what it was in a few minutes time. But this, I'm imagining this podcast is gonna have tears, we're gonna have highs, massive highs, big lows. And we are gonna have a huge sense of achievement, not just from Holly and Mel who are on the podcast and who are on the whole of the event, but masses of people in the community. And a big shout out to all of you in Her Spirit  who took part in your different ways virtually or supporting them on the course, whatever it was, you've done incredible work. You've raised an enormous amount of money. I know the fundraiser is going to continue, but the current count, I think it's £72,000 which is a huge amount of money. It's probably gone up in the moments I've been speaking about it. So I can see, first of all, the first person I'm going to introduce on this podcast today is Dame Delyth Morgan, who is giving them a round of applause because she is CEO of Breast Cancer Now. That's where the money goes, isn't it? Delyth welcome. 

Delyth Morgan: 

Well, thank you. It's such a pleasure to be here. I mean, I, I've obviously I've listened to your podcasts and they are so inspiring and it's just lovely to be a part of this conversation. So thank you for having me. 

Louise Minchin: 

I know you've already given your round of applause to everybody who's done it. Liz O’Riordan, you have been on the podcast, you are a doctor and you are hugely passionate about sport and exercise and cancer journeys actually and you took part as well, didn't you? 

Dr Liz O'Riordan: 

I did and part of me wished I could join them, and I'm very glad they lived so far away and I couldn't do it but it was just this amazing opportunity to get a whole load of people connecting and exercising and doing something really positive. And I had been blown away by the random strangers who have signed up based on a video I put on Instagram just to help Lakes to London. It's incredible. 

Louise Minchin: 

Well, absolutely, monumental. So you two have been sort of a bit like me sitting on the sidelines and watching Mel and Holly do something that is beyond, I mean, I do a lot of endurance sport, but my admiration for you two has gone through the roof. Okay. Who wants to tell me what it was? Holly, you go.

Holly Woodford: 

I'm sitting here laughing because hearing you talk about it, when we sat in the garage in January, it just seems like perfectly sane and normal and doable to swim five kilometres across Lake Windermere, which is something that we've enjoyed doing together in the past, swimming, So that's where the idea of putting some swimming in. Mel is an amphibian. So I thought it needed to have a water component, but I'm not great in the water, so it was only gonna be 5k. I got to decide the distance and then, and then I just worked out, well, how far is it to cycle to London? How many miles is it? And I literally, I was doing it on the bike, Lou, as we were chatting, I remember. And I said, Oh, it's about 200. It's less than 300. It's okay miles wise I'm sure we can figure that out. And then obviously we all know about the iconic London Marathon, which did not disappoint, I can tell you. So yeah, so it just seemed perfectly logical that we would do those three things and there set about probably nine months worth of planning.

Louise Minchin: 

It’s a mega triathlon. So you're gonna do the swim, then get on your bikes, then cycle to London and then turn around and run the London Marathon? 

Holly Woodford: 

Yeah, and I think it was more about doing something that challenged ourselves after a couple of years of sort of covid and not many events. And I definitely am someone that I need a big challenge to get excited and motivated about. So I felt like that this was an opportunity. And I think everything that we've done with Her Spirit and our mantra is that we are far more capable than we ever think we are. And I think we wanted to show that two, ordinary women, we're not, we're not athletes. We don't train full time. We've got a very full time job with Her Spirit working most hours. You can actually do something if you have the right purpose. And it was the purpose around raising money for Breast Cancer Now that drove us on. And the moment we started the relationship with Delyth and her team, we were just all in and we were not gonna stop until we got to London. 

Louise Minchin:
 Okay. So Mel how was it? I mean, that is just the start of a very long story.

Mel Berry: 

Yeah, thanks Lou. And, in a classic triathlon way, the swimming was the shortest distance, which is obviously kind of my wonderful world. Yeah, look, I loved Lake Windermere. It was wonderful to actually get in and swim a little bit further than I was going to. 

Louise Minchin: 

Okay. So just tell, and this is such a, I'm so fascinated because,  I love triathlon, I love endurance sports, so I need to know details. And I’m sure lots of people here will want to know details. I mean, a 5K swim is not a walk in the park. It's not even a swim in a pool. It's a very long way.

Dr Liz O’Riordan:

How many lengths of the pool is it?

Mel Berry: 

Okay, because I'm a swimming geek,  I can tell you what that is. So five times 40 gives you obviously, that total, I'm still fatigued, so my ability to be able to, figure out five times 40.

Louise Minchin: 

So, okay. Yeah, so I'm, I'm good at my math. I've got a calculator here. So 5,000 meters for everybody who is a, part-time swimmer like me or just a first time swimmer. And most pools in the UK most big pools are 25 meters. So it's 200 times 25 meters. I mean, I think, an average, I mean, what does an average person do? Maybe you might, you might do 20 lengths. You wouldn't do 200, right? Okay, so you're gonna do this distance in open water. The weather was not good, was it? 

Mel Berry: 

Fortunately the weather on Thursday afternoon was really good because we changed from Friday morning to Thursday afternoon because the weather forecast, your wonderful former colleague Carol Kirkwood kept telling us that on Friday it was gonna be biblical and it well and truly delivered on its biblical Friday, but on Thursday it was glorious and sunny. So Holly doesn't like the rolling water, so she fortunately got the flat water rather than the rolling water. So you didn't have to grab the seasick bag, did you? 

Holly Woodford: 

I didn't, and I have to say, for Mel she is a very, very good swimmer and it is her happy place, a 5K for Mel, she was like, happy place, just going for a stroll in the lake. Sarah Williams who joined us on the challenges, we are not that, we are definitely land mammals. So we really struggled, actually, we found it really hard and I think we were both really, really apprehensive about it. It was cold as well. It was 16 degrees and we had acclimatised for the last 12 months, but it still, it still was a challenge. I would just like to say though that Kate Rham, who's the head of events at Breast Cancer Now joined us for part of that swim. We had two other community members, Lynne Tomlinson, Jules Pollock, who have both had breast cancer and been on their breast cancer journey. 

And Kate joined both of those to swim half the distance. And I was so delighted to see her. She's actually a really good swimmer, I’ve said to her since that I'm gonna have to polish up my swimming if I'm gonna stay ahead. So that was great because it just felt like as a team, it was Breast Cancer Now and Her Spirit as a team doing it together every moment. And that's something I really want to kind of share in some of the other stories because it wasn't a casual kind of relationship with Breast Cancer. Now the team were amazing. I've never worked with a charity with such warmth and sense that it's all about people. It's not just about raising the money, it's actually all about the people and the stories. 

Delyth Morgan: 

But you were, you were inspiring us. I think that's the thing about being a,  in partnership, because it is an incredible privilege to work with inspiring people. So that was just really part of it for us.

Holly Woodford: 

Thank you. I'm gonna cry now. I have to say Mel, Mel was actually reading all of the comments that community members have made about Lakes to London this morning. She was literally bawling on the sofa next to me through breakfast. So it has been an incredible journey and a tough one. It's, it looks easy as, it might look easy on the outside, but even in comparison to the distance swim for me was really, I was really stressed about it. 

Louise Minchin: 

Can I tell you, it didn't look easy at all by the way. I was watching. I was not even in this country and I was watching the updates. I was like, this is really tough. I'm gonna come back to the swim in a minute. Liz, I wanna just come back a little bit to you as well, because what's been so amazing about this whole journey is lots of people, and I know Delyth, you've been doing this too, we've all been helping and I haven't done all my minutes and miles etc yet, but I will do it cause I've done, I've been doing them, but I haven't added them up. But you've been doing this virtually as well as support, haven't you? What's that been like? 

Dr Liz O'Riordan: 

It's been amazing to get me out of bed and get me exercising. Because although I'm, I'm a spokesperson for it, I have bad days. You get into a slump and this has got me back into it thinking, right, I'm gonna start running, I'm gonna swim, I'm gonna get back on the bike on the turbo. And when you put your miles up on social media and other people are doing it and it's like everyone is cheering everybody along, it's just, you're doing it for everybody else out there. And it's so great to be part of this like behemoth that hopefully people will carry on continuing exercising. It's just been incredible. 

Louise Minchin: 

Okay, so I'm gonna, we're just gonna go on a journey. This is what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna, get you Liz to join in, you Delyth. But I love the journey that you went on. So you did, you did the swim and I, and I don't care about times, but just so people have an idea how long you were in the cold water, What was it, what was your time? More or less. 

Mel Berry:
 I was very fortunate to do it in just under an hour and a half. 

Louise Minchin:
 Gosh. So she was a little bit ahead of you Holly?

Holly Woodford: 

Yes. I think Mel was about 20 to 25 minutes ahead. So I think I came in, I think it was around 1 hr 50, 1hr 55. My Apple watch stopped working because the water, they don't like the water or the cold I've discovered. So so based on that, we think it was about an hour and 50 and Sarah was just a little bit behind that as well. So she always jokes that she swims at one speed and one speed only.

Louise Minchin: 

Well, I mean, whatever, it's, it's nearly two hours in really cold water. Okay, so that, so that was, and you had lots of people supporting you there. You got a bit of rest then, did you, before the bike ride? 

Holly Woodford: 

We did. We were staying kind of nearby actually. We had the team also staying. So it's really important to say, I think that we had a team of 12 that were supporting us all Her Spirit Community members and a chap called JC who's one of the Her Spirit community coaches, all volunteers all gave up five days of their time unpaid leave and they paid some of their way because what we didn't want to do was take any money from the fundraising to pay for any of our costs for the challenge. We always set that out from day one. And I'm just blown away by a group of people that have never done anything like this before. Not only us get to London, but they got us to London and they were quite incredible. So they were obviously really excited the night, it was actually my birthday on the on the Thursday. So we had a little birthday round of applause at dinner and it was off to bed. And then we started the next morning at Newbie Bridge, I think it was about eight o'clock I think we, we got off. I dunno if this is a lady thing, but we had so much luggage it took an awful long time to pack and find things on that first day. So I think we started about half an hour late. 

Louise Minchin: 

Ah, listen, I could have having spent a bit of time cycling across Argentina with Mimi Anderson who we've also had on the podcast who is a really brilliant endurance athlete. It's all about the bags. It's all about the bags. You have bags for everything and then you just get the right bag. But anyway, I should have told you that beforehand. I should have told you that before hand. Mel, Okay. So you set off on the bike ride, you've got a long day ahead. Did you have a specific mileage in that day that you needed to do? 

Mel Berry: 

Yeah on first or on Friday we wanted to cover just over 140 miles and we knew that that would be our biggest day because getting out of the Lake District is pretty hilly and for the first 20, 30 miles we're talking about 20% inclines, phenomenal scenery. But when the wind and the rain definitely picked up those 20 miles, I think JC did say to me at one stage, did I wanna push? I think I must have been kind of zigzagging around.

Louise Minchin: 

And by push he meant to get off the bike and go on your feet. 

Mel Berry: 

Yeah, I think he wanted to support us in our wonderful support cars and give me push. I don't think he realised…

Louise Minchin

Oh, push with the car?

Holly Woodford: 

Correct. So we had two, we had two great support cars that were shielding us and actually when we left the Lake District, we went on the duel carriageway to try and take out some of the inclines which was quite fun actually. With our two land rovers kind of boxing us in either side. There's a great video actually of one of the guys who I probably shouldn't say it, but got out the sun roof and took a great video of us kind of on the road. But that was really fun. We were having the time of our life at that point, as Mel said, until we hit the hills and the deluge of rain. And I've gotta say, I mean that first stop that we had, our support team were incredible cause we were, we were wet, we were cold, they were trying to feed us. We were trying to get changed into, into other kit and just kind of get on the road. And there was one point when we left that stop where we were descending and I literally had half an eye open. Cause you couldn't wear, you couldn't wear glasses anymore cause you just couldn't see anything. There was a point later in the day where I actually wonder that if we should have been on the road and if we hadn't have been doing this, I don't think we should have been on the road. Well, you wouldn't, you wouldn't. It was, it was, it was unpleasant to say the least. And I wouldn't say dangerous because I think if it was ever dangerous we would've stopped. That was, obviously we would've done, but we definitely had to dig very deep that day. And, and I think I used four different cycle kits that day just to get to Uttoxeter which was our 140 mile mark.

Louise Minchin: 

Gosh, well that's, that's why you needed all those bags. That's why you needed it all. To be fair. Yeah, well done for having four cycle kits to wear. Mel, I mean, you know though, as we talk about highs and lows, was that some of your lowest points on that day and what did you do to get through them? 

Mel Berry: 

Definitely some of the lower points on the Friday cuz the weather conditions were so, so bad. But as I mentioned and talked about earlier, had to always remember that I'm very fortunate that I've never had my own breast cancer diagnosis. And there were many women within Her Spirit that have and have gone on their own chemo and radiotherapy. So the context of discomfort and pain was always put into context that I am somebody that's healthy. So used that as my why I was always purpose driven because we're doing it for something much greater. And we had a brilliant team, Louise, the people had smiles on their faces that were also wet and cold and that whole camaraderie, I think as women when we come together that strength and power is brilliant. And we did whether or not it was, home bake cake that somebody had brought in to the top of the climb, whether or not it was, stopping at service station and being given a, a warm cup of tea and just humbled by people on the road giving us donations. People putting their hand in their pocket and giving us £20, £30 pounds for me.

Dr Liz O'Riordan: 

Was that after using the toilet or before? 

Mel Berry:
 Yeah. I wondered if that would come up.

Dr Liz O'Riordan:
 I know, sorry, I had to mention it. 

Louise Minchin:
 You had a very lucrative pee stop, didn't you? 

Mel Berry: 

I did, yeah. So on day two, I think we've created a hashtag pooing for pounds. So Delyth, if you need any advice and guidance within your fundraising. 

Louise Minchin: It was peeing wasn’t it?

Dr Liz O'Riordan:
 Oh no, number two, it's worth more, it's worth more.

Mel Berry: 

The short version of my new fundraising strategy on Saturday morning was, was feeling a little bit fatigued for obvious reasons needed to go to the toilet. So I said I need to stop everybody. And Amy within our team who is my guardian angel, and was on those two days, shouted out in a very posh way in a housing estate “Excuse me, can you tell me where the nearest toilet is?” and this woman very kindly said “You can use my toilet if you'd like” of which I said great and hopped off the bike and threw it, on the sidewalk. Walked over and said to the woman in the house "Can I use your toilet?” And she said, “Of course my daughter's doing Ironman, France. I love these kind of things.” And I explained what we were doing, why we were doing it. And then when I came out of the toilet because obviously kind of I needed it quite desperately, she gave me £20 and she said you guys are brilliant. And so if you check us out on Instagram, Her Spirit UK you will see the way that I was able to fundraise £20 off the back of using someone's toilet. So thank you very much for that woman that kindly donated. 

Louise Minchin: 

Well I would've paid £20 to use the toilet. So you are winning at life at this point, aren't you? Absolutely brilliant. It's so obvious that you're inspiring people, part of the community but also not part of the community as well. Absolutely. Brilliant. So just to remind everybody, you are listening to the Her Spirit podcast and this is the epic one, the Lakes to London debrief, which I'm so enjoying. Okay, so we got to the really hard day of cycling the then get, when did you get to the hotel? How late was it?

Holly Woodford: 

We, we got to Uttoxeter and we did a bit more duel carriage way, and it was cold, it was misty by that point. And we decided to do the fast route,  on the duel carriage way. Having done it earlier in the day, and it actually sounds dangerous, but actually its better cause cars can pass you. So we got to the hotel about, I think it was about half twelve, one in the morning. There was some issues with checking in the team into the hotel. So that caused a bit of a delay and I think we got to bed, Mel, I think about two in the morning. 

Louise Minchin:
 And how are you feeling? Is your body, are your body just like buzzing, aching? Aching? 

Holly Woodford: 

I was feeling great, honestly. I felt really good. I did, I did. I felt really good. And, but the problem I then had was I just had exercise induced insomnia. I couldn't sleep, I couldn't sleep both nights, which I then found quite challenging on the Sunday morning for the marathon. So yeah, it was, it was, it was tough and we knew getting up the next morning was always gonna be difficult and I think Mel woke up, woke up to dry retching, if I actually remember rightly. Sorry, I shouldn't laugh, but you have to, right? Cause otherwise you'd never carry on.

Louise Minchin: 

It's the only thing you're gonna do. So I mean nutrition is super important as we've talked about on the podcast and do go back to listen to our podcast, we did I think a couple of months ago on nutrition, didn't we? Mel or was it like it was last month wasn't it's really good. Mel, yeah, dry retching doesn't sound to me like you'd nailed that?

Mel Berry: 

I think it was a classic example of not eating enough because the weather was so bad. I've got little food bag on the front of my bicycle that had all that great nutrition in, but when I couldn't open the food bag or couldn't get into the bag or my body just generally just didn't want to kind of eat anything cause it was, I would imagine in pretty much survival mode. I was definitely under fed. And one of the things that Jesse, who's our phenomenal fuel coach, said X amount of carbohydrates, X amount of sodium, X amount of fluids that went out of the window. And my body was definitely in need for food and I hadn't, I hadn't done what I should have done, but definitely fed really quickly on the Saturday morning after that. 

Louise Minchin: 

And thank you for that honesty, because I think that's really important,  to kind of like know what, where things went wrong and actually fuel in all these kind of events. And we've talked, that's why we did the podcast on it is so important, isn't it? 

Dr Liz O'Riordan: 

And it's so hard when you're cold and grumpy and miserable. You, when you're cold and grumpy and miserable and you know you should, but you don't want to. It's really hard to break that cycle. 

Delyth Morgan:
 What, what food, what did you have in your little bag, your food bag?

Mel Berry: 

Well, I had Percy pigs. Percy pigs kept me going, they definitely put a smile on, on my face, but I know for my system I have to eat little and often because a big volume of food I really struggle to process. So small flapjacks were one of the things cause I knew that I could get that through the support of our wonderful partners High Five, they have little gummy bears, so they're like jelly babies, but, but with a bit more kind of nutrition. And then it was bars. And again, through the support of our wonderful partners at Awesome Supplements, I had a carbohydrate and hydration product that I kept, drinking every hour. So a full bottle, which is 750 millilitres. So drinking it as well as consuming it. But we had wonderful support of a caterer called Mrs. Beese. So I love my ham sandwich at the top of the, the trough of Bowlands and I did love Snickers on Friday and Saturday, but when we come on to talk about the marathon, I lost my love of the Snickers bar on Sunday, 

Louise Minchin: 

Which I'm devastated for you to be honest with you because Snickers are my go-to, so I can't. Yeah. Anyway, so you go, you eventually you get on the bikes the next day. Have there been tears at this point or not? 

Holly Woodford:  Yes. 

Louise Minchin: Have there?

Holly Woodford: 

Yeah, so my, one of my worst moments, there was two actually. My first worst moment happened on that first riding day. We actually got separated from Mel and one of our support riders in Manchester. We were due to stop at my friend's house, the lovely Eve Murphy, who I cannot tell you what a sanctuary that was her house in Manchester after such an awful day, I got to the house and Mel was behind and she just never appeared. So we tried to kind of call to see where she was. And one of the support team had Mel's phone. And unfortunately, and this is one of the challenges when you've had such a difficult day and stressful day, we hadn't checked that either Mel or the support rider had a means of communication. So they had actually ridden past our stop. So when we'd kind of worked out what had happened, we had to rejig the team. And then obviously we had basically gone about for about 15 miles further, no than we were and it was just very lucky that Mel and I'd actually reccee that part of the root and it, she'd stopped a pub that she recognised where we'd stopped to have a coffee actually when we did the root reccee. And she got the pub to, she got the pub phone basically and remembered her phone number and phoned us to tell us what had happened. It's no joke that I think I cycled incredibly fast. I think I did a time trial for that 15 miles to Mel. And when I got there I was literally sobbing on her shoulder going, I'm just, what happened? I can't believe this happened. So that, that was, that was, that was my first and probably only tears moments actually. 

Louise Minchin: 

Oh gosh. There's so much to unpack in that. I mean, first of all,  just obviously, this is a big event, things can go wrong in these kind of events and also for me, I have separation anxiety, obviously, like you do Holly as well. And there is something that's just awful, isn't it? Gosh, 

Mel Berry: 

Yes by the time everybody arrived, I had calmed, I'd calmed down because when I arrived and the wonderful, land lady at the pub, I said, I've got no phone. All my mates have bleep bleep bleep left me and I've got no, I've got no money and can I please call them? And she was brilliant. She said, Of course you can. And then fed me because I had no money. So I was really frustrated, Lou because I felt really vulnerable because if I'd have carried on, I would've been in the dark. I was with a rider that again, didn't have any form of communication. So that was frustrating that my fellow teammate wasn't supportive of me. But by the time they all arrived and Holly well and truly kind of cried on my shoulder and everybody looked away cause they thought, they thought this was the first big moment that the team was gonna explode and they were gonna definitely be fireworks. I think you could have sold tickets. I think that would've been another fundraising strategy. 

Delyth Morgan:

Yeah that’s a thought

Mel Berry:
 Yeah. Put 10 in the box to see what happens. 

Louise Minchin: 

But this is the reality, isn't it? I'm really glad we are doing this and we're talking this through because I think, people sort of think, “Oh, you do these amazing events, Wow, you're incredible” and it's all, you kind of look, I think the journey's really important cause I think you learn a lot about yourself on this, on these journeys, don't you?

Dr Liz O'Riordan: 

And you can get kind of cold, wet and tired and you're just thinking about, I need to get to the place to stop. You kind of forget about everyone else because you've just had enough and you think “Oh, I'm with other people, Where are they?” It's a really weird place to be when you're that tired. 

Louise Minchin: 

Yeah. And that vulnerable Mel, I've been in positions like that.

Delyth Morgan: 

I was gonna say, I think for, for those of us who haven't probably done quite the size of the challenges that you are talking about, knowing that you've got those, that you have those questions and self doubts and moments where you are, you are feeling tearful or just too cold and tired is, I mean, in a strange way it's kind of encouraging for those of us who might think to know that you guys actually feel it sometimes too is really encouraging. 

Louise Minchin: 

I think just reflect back to you Liz a bit as well because you know and you've been through your own cancer journey and everything, and there are will be many moments where there are dark moments aren't there for you in those journeys? 

Dr Liz O'Riordan: 

Very. And it's weird during chemotherapy you just get through it and people ask, how do you cope? You just do because you have no choice. But when it comes to exercise, I'm almost scared of pushing myself to that limit cause I don't want to feel pain again. And it's easier to give up halfway through a challenge because I can, and it's thinking, no, actually you can do far more than you think, it is mind over matter. But no matter how fit you are, you all still struggle, especially in miserable weather. I felt so sorry for you two, honestly. 

Louise Minchin: 

You know, I’ve been in those dark moments and, and I can just look at that and I just thought, this is, this is really tough. Okay, so well done. You have your moment, you hug, Did you hug it out? I find a hug is a really, really helpful thing.

Holly Woodford: 

Yeah. I think, I think it was just the realisation that it can go wrong really quickly. And I think it was that point where I was cycling to and I knew where she was and I was cycling to her thinking this, we are on the road, everybody's at risk. And that's something we talked about as a team about what we would and wouldn't do. And Mel and I were very steadfast that we wouldn't put any other team members at risk at any point. So the moments where we'd planned that only we would be on the road and things like that. So I think for me, that was the first moment where I felt we'd put others at risk and that's, that's tough actually because we, we wanted to do the challenge. We were obviously doing it for Breast Cancer Now, but in doing so, potentially putting others at risk. So I think it was a lot of emotion around then. Yeah, of course. You know I wanted to know that Mel was okay and that obviously the fact that that circumstance had happened didn't feel great but we lived to fight another day.

Louise Minchin: 

And then you, and then you finished that day. Was that the first? We're still on the first day of cycling, aren't we? 

Holly Woodford: 

Still on the first day. So yeah, so I guess we must have done, I think it was 16 hours of cycling. I think, my record kind of showed and then we, yes, and then we got to bed and had probably, well I probably had about two hours sleep if I was lucky. I think Mel only had four and then we were up the next morning for day two. 

Louise Minchin: 

Just a quick note from from an, from an endurance sleeper. As my job was, was I had a lot of lack of sleep and I used to always think when I was lying in bed and to anybody who can't sleep, I'm not sure this is immensely helpful, but it used to help me. I'd go, at least I'm lying down, I'm resting, something will be regenerating in my body. Okay, so next morning you wake up, you feel amazing, not quite so amazing.

Holly Woodford: 

It was sunny though, the sun was out. So it felt like a new day and a completely new challenge, didn't it Mel?

Mel Berry: 

It did. And, and it massively helped. And we did a couple of Instagram lives and Liz, you joined us for a couple that kept us going, but on Saturday morning, our wonderful Donna Fraser was our first Instagram live and, and somebody within our team, so Jules Pollock, who's been on her own breast cancer journey and maybe this is our kind first time to cry as a, as a group. She reminded me that the day before, so Friday was the day that it would've been Deborah James birthday. And that definitely made me stop and made me kind of really relate back to my why. And Donna was brilliant because Donna's been on her own breast cancer journey and that's the power of togetherness. I mean, we created Her Spirit on that. So buckle up, get ready, and 140 miles, which,  Holly realised was 160 miles, but we'll definitely come onto that. 

Holly Woodford: It wasn't 160.

Dr Liz O'Riordan:
 One of those shortcuts? I know those. 

Holly Woodford: 

There was a moment where we said where on earth is Hemel Hempstead?

Louise Minchin:
 You, what, did you add extra miles by mistake? 

Holly Woodford:

No we didn’t. What had happened was cause it took, because you know what happens when you're on, when you are very fatigued and you are just literally doing one activity, relentlessly your mind goes different places. And when we were too far north of Hemel Hempstead at one point and Sarah Williams who was the other team member, and I literally spent an hour and a half obsessing about the mileage and had we got it wrong, was the mileage wrong between each of the stops? And I said, but I've done this route for nine months. I know it's 282/83 miles. I knew there was a little bit of give in that, and I don't understand why Hemel Hempstead is still 15 miles away. It just does not make sense. 

Louise Minchin: And what was the answer?

Holly Woodford: 

Well the answer actually was that we actually did 135 miles on the first day. So that meant that the next day was 145 and a bit, but it was only when we were driving back on the Monday with all the team that I figured it out. I was like, I get it now. But it was that real moment where you think, have I completely screwed it up? Because on day two we are still cycling and Central London doesn't feel near that I'm now my heart is starting to palpitate thinking, “have I now got this wrong and am I now taking that the riders and the team on a, on a merry go round?” 

Dr Liz O'Riordan:
 When they just wanna get into the end and you're adding a more mileage.

Louise Minchin:
 Liz, that's must be something to do with the effects of extreme exercise on your brain function?

Dr Liz O'Riordan: 

Yeah and you can't think properly. And no matter how far you go, it's always the last 5K or 5 miles are the worst when they're even further away, you just, you just start flagging, don't you? It's so, so hard. And when, especially when you've got the marathon to do the next day, it's madness. 

Louise Minchin: 

It’s Psychologically messed with aren’t you? Okay, so you finished the bike ride. You get to London at 

Mel Berry: 1.30am 

Holly Woodford:
 At 1 in the morning.

Louise Minchin: 

Oh my gosh. Anyway, so here you are, 1.30am, turn around your bicycles, literally. And what, have a shower before you do the marathon? Have some more rest and some more food?

Mel Berry:
 Yes. I enjoyed my shower. 

Liz O’Riordan:
 And I'm imagining caked to Shammy Cream here. Please tell me you had a shower.

Mel Berry: 

Yes, my advice from a wonderful host, Louise mentioned is the power of Sudocreme. So there were many times on route that the very big tub of sudocreme came out.  And yes, the undercarriage was well and truly supported.

Louise Minchin:
 I'm so glad they told you that. 

Holly Woodford: 

We, we had a visit from Gemma who's our physio. Gemma's, the Her Spirit  physio and you'll see quite a lot in the community with her. We, we shared quite a lot of our physio journey with Gemma. She runs total performance physio. She works with England Athletics, actually. She works with a lot of athletes which was helpful with the type of activity we were doing. So we only got through it because of her sport. And one of our other friends Mags, who's a physio as well, who was our second physio, so actually despite us getting in late, Gemma was always there in our room, treating us, making sure that we could get a good night's sleep and then be ready for the next morning. So by the time you do all of that, it's actually quite late. So even when you get in late, it's quite late and you're kind of looking at the merits of sleep versus physio at that kind of point.

Louise Minchin: 

Okay, so I knew this would, this would be a great podcast. So we'll talk about the marathon I mean, gosh, you were able to start at the sort of front of the start line, weren't you? Which was a good thing because you were doing such a massive challenge. I mean, how'd you even approach that marathon? Are you gonna run, are you gonna walk? What, what's your strategy?

Holly Woodford: 

One of the things I really want to say is a huge thank you to, to Delyth actually and her team, Kate, who's the head events and Rebecca who's a senior events kind of manager, because I can't lie, we felt awful on Sunday morning when we were at the hotel and I could barely eat and I think I managed to get one porridge pot down before leaving the room. And when we got down into reception Rebecca from Breast Cancer Now was there to meet us. This is her big day. She leads all the London Marathon team. But she'd got up early to meet us at the hotel. She escorted us to the tube station to make sure we got on the right tube and then when we got to Mays Hill, which is the start of the London Marathon, we were met by Kate who again escorted us to the start line. And for me that made all the difference cause we were really struggling at that point. We were feeling ill, I was sat on the tube with my head, I think against the kind of a rail spooning some more porridge in and I dunno what people thought. These irresponsible people, what they've been out all night or something and now they're gonna try and run the London Marathon. And I just think the care that the whole team showed us was amazing. And that's also what drove us on. So there was no way we were not gonna start it and we were always gonna finish it.

Delyth Morgan: You’ll make me cry now.  

Mel Berry: 

But, but I think this is a huge testament to the culture that you've created within your organisation because every person that has support and helped us along this journey has supported through their love of what they do. And that's why it kept us going. And we continue to strive to get to a hundred thousand pounds in fundraising. 

Louise Minchin: 

£72,000 pounds as we speak on this podcast. But hopefully, I expect by the time it's gone out, it'll go up. Okay, so let's whizz through things cause I want to get to a few important things for the end. I also want to hear from the community. And I know so many of you been in touch this is from Donna Fraser, who is part of the whole event. “Great team. I take my hat off to you girls.” Dr. Nighat Arif, who is a friend to the podcast, friend to Her Spirit is "so proud of you ladies. I'm doing my swim to help.”  Greg White, also friend of ours at Her Spirit magnificent, congratulations team, Her Spirit. I'm so proud of you. So many wonderful messages the marathon, I mean, I know it took you a long time, Mel there were, when did you cry along the way? 

Mel Berry: 

Oh, I, I cried a lot because just the, I guess the magnitude of what we had done and what we were achieving. And we got to mile nine where the woman that we talked about, Kate Rham and Simon the director of research and fundraising. So that was going the first weep. Then we got to mile 13, we had a Her Spirit takeover and many of the women that were on that station including Lynne Tomlinson who was on the podcast that we did around the initial breast cancer, she started crying. Oh my god, I absolutely lost it and there's a great picture of the two of us and I know that set everybody else off. Gemma talked about how she started crying because yes, there were lots of tears. Lou, I I can't lie to you on that one.

Louise Minchin: It’s okay. 

Holly Woodford: 

The good thing was we knew, obviously it was the Breast Cancer Now team obviously have cheer points around the marathon, which is just a godsend. And I have to, I said to the team, so many people shouted for us, not because they knew anything about Lakes to London, but because we were wearing Breast Cancer Now t-shirts. And we really felt the love for the charity actually, which made, made us feel really proud. Anyway, we thought we'd style it out to 13 cause that's where all of our team were. We were gonna look good, we were gonna smile, we did that. It was great. High fives, hugs, tears. We basically ran around the corner and then Mel stopped and started puking, 

Which obviously wasn't funny, but slightly funny because it was just all, you know that point. Everything's it's just part of the challenge, what we are doing. And it was unfortunately, I, the team had asked me on the way, “Do you want anything at the 13?” And I said I'd love a Snickers bar. So they got Snickers bar. So, Mel got handed one. I had one unfortunately, Mel, Snickers and running clearly don't go. It was great for me, I have to say it worked fine. I think I managed to slam in a few donuts at mile 22 as well. I think some great pictures of me actually looking half of sleep eating donuts. But I clearly don't have the same GI issues that Mel has. But that was the snickers story. 

Louise Minchin: 

Oh gosh and eventually, so you running, Sarah's still running with you at this point, isn't she? She's been, she's been with you the whole way through? 

Holly Woodford: 

No, Sarah kind of was quicker actually. So she hopped off in front of us with Donna. Donna said “oh we'll run with you” and anyway, at the start line, Donna was off. So I think she did a five hour marathon or something. And then Sarah was late fives, which was great. So I think she was very keen to get to the end by that point.

Delyth Morgan: How were the feet?

Holly Woodford: 

So basically we spend about three days walking around without shoes on. I think most of the time at Royal Automobile Club, which is where the,  Breast Cancer Now run a repatriation is if you ever thinking of doing the London Marathon, people listening to this do it with Breast Cancer Now, they're not only phenomenal, but they have the most phenomenal place to go and meet all your family and friends at the Royal Automobile Club. So it's all lots of good reasons to run. 

Delyth Morgan: 

Yeah, well they look after us very well there. And it's because family are such a, or family and friends are such a motivation for everyone, it's really important to keep them looked after so that everyone can find each other at the end, which is such a, so chaotic, isn't it for everyone. 

Louise Minchin: 

So you both get to the end. Is there a sense of what, what was your sense? Was it relief, elation, exhaustion? How were you? 

Mel Berry: 

I think all of the above. And again, through the support that Breast Cancer Now, we were able to give two VIP places to two women in our team. So Jane Miller and Jules were in the grandstand and I'd messaged them cause I'd taken my phone to capture many moments and I said, five minutes we're coming and they literally had elbowed their way through to the front of the grandstand. And again, we came up to them, gave them big hug. Jane wept, Jane was the crier of the tour. She tells the story that she had to take a toilet role with her because she knew that she was gonna cry so much on meeting us and many others. And getting to the end, I mean, never did I think that the only medal that I would get this year would be the London Marathon. 

And, and for context, we've talked about breast cancer, but I've got osteoarthritis in my, my hip. And if it hadn't have been for a lot of dedication from my side and the support from Gemma our physio to get stronger, there would be no way that I would've been able to do it. I did say to Gem, I can't believe all this work that I've done. I've now got an arse, and even my arse hurt as I was kind of running around because actually I was using my glutes because I never had them in the past before. But look, I think the word that I wanna use is pride. I was so proud of what we as a team did. This is not about three individuals doing a phenomenal challenge. This is about people like, Liz supporting us.  Liz's team has raised over £15,000. It's the support that Louise, you've given us people like Nighat, Greg gave us permission to say, it's okay. It's not a crazy challenge. You can do it. Look at Nighat, she’s overcome swimming and she's then gone and done swimming because she wants to get her kids to be proud. She wants every Muslim, Pakistani woman to say it's okay to, to swim. And that sense of togetherness is, yeah, it is gold dust. It's brilliant. 

Louise Minchin: 

So we're gonna have to come to the end of this podcast. I know we could go on forever because this is my, my favourite subject is dissecting these kind of events. But I wanna kind of get a few messages really, I suppose Delyth, from your point of view,  they've raised enormous amount of money. Where will that money go and what difference will it make?

Delyth Morgan: 

Well, the most important thing for us in terms of the fundraising achievements for Lakes to London, I mean, it's just to say thank you and it has been a real team effort from,  it's been incredibly inspiring for us to, to be alongside you and, and Liz and all the fundraising that her team's done and all the others who are involved in the community. But what's because of the fundraising like this, £72,000 to date, I'm sure it's going up by the minute is an incredible amount of money and that is absolutely vital for us as a charity. We need to be here for everyone affected by breast cancer. That's through our nurse led help line, our expert evidence based information, our support services, and also importantly our research. We know that over the last 40 years, the survival rates for breast cancer have doubled because of research and progress in new treatments, understanding so much more about breast cancer, all the different types of breast cancer and how treatments can be targeted, how you can get improved diagnosis, and also how you can make sure that people get the treatments that really help them and don't have to endure those that don't. So there, there's so much progress that's been made, but so much more to do to achieve our vision and the fundraising for Breast Cancer Now is helping to do all of those things because we don't get money from the government. No surprises there. All of the funds that go towards our work come from people affected by breast cancer who want to make a difference. And so we are absolutely committed to achieving that future where no one dies from breast cancer and everyone can live well and by living well. You know what, what examples you have set us and it's incredible to see all the positive impact that exercise can have. We know so much more about the role of a healthy lifestyle. That's a whole podcast in itself. I know, but we know so much more about what people can do for themselves to mitigate the negative impacts of going through treatment and survivorship and so on. So, everything that you are doing is just brilliant and we're really great. We're really pleased to be alongside you. So thank you. 

Louise Minchin: 

Liz, from you, I mean, you were so much part of this and your team raised the most money. And I know you're really passionate, aren't you, about exercise and how important it is. Just let's just briefly talk about that. 

Dr Liz O'Riordan: 

So, I didn't know anything about exercise until I was diagnosed myself and realised I wanted to carry on training during treatment. And we now know exercise can halve the risk of you getting breast cancer, it can cut it by 50%. It's the best cure for all the side effects of treatment, the fatigue, the side effects of chemo, the mental stuff. But it can also halve your risk of recurrence. It can cut it by 50%. You just need a pair of trainers. You can do squats at home. And by getting people involved in virtual challenges where they're part of a community, I hope everyone will carry on. Exercise for me, gave me something to be in control of when I was doing triathlons, I was just Liz, I forgot everything else that was going on. And through Holly and Mel, that virtual community, it’s amazing we can get all these other women who've never exercised before getting healthier and getting stronger. 

Louise Minchin: 

Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. Okay, so I think it's time for the community cause I know there's been so many people have worked incredibly hard. How do you know how many miles have been done?

Holly Woodford:
 I'm just gonna, I'm going to look at that now. Hang on. 

Louise Minchin: 

Okay. Cause I haven't done mine yet. It’s not gonna add a massive amount, but it will tell me Mel I know you've got lots of messages. Just if you could just kind of sub down a couple and tell us, what it, what it's meant for the community, what it's meant for people taking part. 

Mel Berry: 

Yeah, I'm going to go to wonderful woman called Rachel Fletcher. I've known Rachel for, for many decades. And this challenge enabled me to reconnect with her. And this is a great example of, “It was an awesome challenge. Not only share effort and determination, but you guys, and being a small part of it was brilliant” but the important thing that she talks about is “I'm left thinking what next because the challenges increased my physical and mental wellbeing.  Something I don't want to let slide. Thanks for including us along the epic journey.” So, thank you Rachel, for coming out with that banner probably three or four times along the under marathon. A brilliant support. 

Holly Woodford: 

We went through our social channels and asked people, what did Lakes to London mean to you and Trina Ashmore she said, "I enjoyed the challenge, it made me set my own goals and I felt a sense of achievement in working towards them without feeling like I was in a competition.” I really love that quote because that's everything that Her Spirit is all about. It's coming together, setting your own goal, feeling motivated, having a sense of achievement, but not feeling like it's competing against other people. So I love that one. 

Louise Minchin: 

I wanna do this one from Caitlin “Lakes to London meant an incredible amount to me. It allowed me to spend quality time with my Mum, (breast cancer survivor) and all her Her Spirit friends, while also helping where I could raise insane amounts for Breast Cancer Now. There is no other place I'd have wanted to be last weekend. Keen for any other wild adventures in the future.” There's a theme here, you two isn't there? There's a theme and I know you two, you will deliver on this theme. We want more.

Holly Woodford: 

Mel has told me that she's going to lace my food with sleeping tablets for a while, so I can't think of something else. And any conversations of what next is banned for this week. So I think I've got Monday. I think I can start that conversation. Okay. 

Dr Liz O’Riordan: We look forward to it.

Holly Woodford:

I've got one that I really wanna share. It's actually Liz Brown, who is a member of your team. Liz. Yeah. She was incredible. And she's actually our top fundraiser. She's raised over £1800. But she said to me, I was so overwhelmed with everyone's generosity and donations she's got breast cancer at the moment. She said the latest chemo's really taken its toll and physically having a target of 200k to reach has helped encourage her get out the house, albeit to walk very slowly. Not very far, but every little bit counts. And I think that's a really important thing that and I said to Liz actually in an email back, Lakes London might be finished, but the community's here to support. So I think we all need support motivation. I think it's hard. I think we are also all living in difficult times. We have the winter, costs are going up. I think motivation will go down but there's lots, lots of opportunities in Her Spirit to feel part of community. And also Lou, it is the winter swim challenge start at the end of this month. 

Louise Minchin: I’ve noticed. 

Holly Woodford: 

I know. So don't worry everyone, we've got the next challenge already on the way 

Dr Liz O’Riordan:

I've been practicing Okay. With the cold. I'm getting ready. 

Louise Minchin: 

Listen, I just can I, I just swam from Alcatraz last weekend. I'll add that in and can I count it as part of my winters challenge? 

Holly Woodford: 

Yes and we have done Louise, we have done the whole extra London community have done over 173,000 kilometres. Wow. 

Louise Minchin:
 Let's give us all ourselves around applause, 

Holly Woodford: Yay. 

Louise Minchin:
 Well done. Everybody.

Mel Berry: 

Just to close. And I guess it links into the quote that you read from, from Caitlin, but this is one from Helen O'Brien. “I love the challenge. It got me back out on my bike after I lost confidence and motivation, forgotten how much I love it. And it pushed myself a little further and a little faster each day. It really helped knowing I couldn't let you lot down. I lost my mum to breast cancer. Maybe, just maybe the money we raise will save someone else's mum. I miss mine so much.” 

Louise Minchin: 

Ah, what a beautiful message. Let's leave it with that. Thank you very much everybody. Thank you so much to Holly, Mel, Delyth, and Liz for taking time out to talk to me today. Absolutely fabulous thing that you've done and don't forget you can follow their progress. Offer some support and inspiration at Facebook.com/Her Spirit. And if you've been inspired, I mean you two do inspire on me. I have to be careful of the conversations I have with you because we all end up doing extraordinary things. We're not necessarily planning. There are lots of brilliant, tips, pieces of advice and challenges. You can sign up for all levels from beginners to doing endurance events. Just head to herspirit.co.uk, join in conversations as well on Facebook and Instagram. I know they're still going on about Lakes to London at Her Spirit and we’ll post episode notes as well. And a link where you can read a full transcription. Thank you so much for listening. It's been a real pleasure. I always loved doing this podcast, but today it has been absolutely joyous. I'm Louise Minchin. The next episode of the Her Spirit podcast will be arriving on Monday 7th November about my other favourite subject. It's the menopause. Love that. Until then, remember together we have got this.