"Your Boobs Can Move Up To 15cm" A Guide to Bras, Pants and Cossies

This episode is about wearing what makes you feel good during exercise.

Host Louise Minchin speaks to Richard Edmonds, CEO & Co-founder of Runderwear, Charlotte Thomas, International Brand & Marketing Manager for ZOGGS,  Sarah Porter, Her Spirit Open Water Swimming Coach & Runderwear Ambassador and Mel Berry, Her Spirit Co-founder. 

In this episode you will learn:

• Why we chafe.
• How Runderwear works.
• The importance of a good sports bra.
• How ZOGGS created their swimsuit for open-water swimmers.

To help Her Spirit reach their £100,000 total for Breast Cancer Now, enter the code Runderwear10  when you buy your next items at Runderwear and get a 15% discount at Zoggs with the code HSPOD15

Read a full transcript of the episode here.

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Transcript

Her Spirit - Season 5 Episode 9
"Your Boobs Can Move Up To 15cm" A Guide to Bras, Pants and Cossies

Louise Minchin: 

Hello and welcome to the Her Spirit podcast. 

This is gonna be the podcast where we talk about pants. Yep, you've heard it. Pants, bras, and also swimming costumes and things to swim in. So I'm really looking forward to it. I'm Louise Minchin. Every month we sit down and talk about the small changes we could all make to our lives that can lead to big results. If you are new to the podcast, welcome, it's gonna be a special one. 

Her Spirit is a community of women just like you. We come together to help and encourage each other to get more active and feel stronger, happier, healthier. Come and join us at herspirit.co.uk. And as you've already heard by this very brief introduction, there is no subject that we won't talk about. If you're already active, you'll find lots of resources and plans to get you to your next level. 

If you haven't though, got the bike out of the garage, maybe you don't even have a bike actually, or they've only just started walking or running. It doesn't matter because you're part of our community at herspirit.co.uk, you'll find lots of inspiration and support. Absolutely no judgment. And that really is today's word. No judgment at all. 

And I have actually been talking about Instagram on this and I've been absolutely amazed by the amount of people who want to talk about the problems they've had, finding the right kit, the right underwear particularly, and also swimming costumes as well to go and get active in. So let me do some introductions we have with us today. 

We got Mel Berry, who is of course Her Spirit founder and he's got lots to talk about, very litlle to talk about with regards to pants actually, but I'll come to that in a minute. We've got Sarah Porter, who is one of our open water swim coaches. She ran the London Marathon this year and also a Runderwear ambassador.  Talking of underwear, we have Richard Edmonds who is Runderwear CEO and co-founder. Welcome Richard. And actually just congratulations for making it on the podcast because I think you are along with Greg White, one of only two men actually we've had on the podcast. So welcome. And also we've got with us Charlotte Thomas, who's a ZOGGS International brand manager. 

So today's podcast is gonna be particularly honest and we are gonna talk about all things underwear outside of the water and swimwear in the water and all the problems that you may or may not have. Let's start with those problems. 

First of all, Mel, I want you to talk first of all because this is very much your inspiration And I'm laughing and I shouldn't laugh,  cuz I don't mean to in any way. This is perfectly normal. You can wear what you like, but you choose not to wear underwear when you're running. 

Mel Berry: 

I did until probably about two weeks ago I was Mrs. Commando never wore any pants to run in and I found out in the last five minutes that is something that I think many if not all of you are just completely and utterly shocked by who knew? I was just so controversial. 

Louise Minchin: 

Aghast, I think. But you are not alone. I mean for example, I did put out on Insta today, I asked people and lots of people said they do not wear they go commando when they're running. So for me I think it's just a sort of paranoia about what happened if I ended up in hospital and I wasn't wearing pants. But I mean that's totally ridiculous. Sarah you actually helped out didn't you? Cuz you were there. <laugh> Mel needed a pair of pants to have a massage. Is that right? After the London Marathon? 

Sarah Porter: 

Yes that's right. And every girl should have a spare of pants in her bag cuz you never know when you might need a spare. Especially when you are.... 

Louise Minchin:
  Well I dunno what that means. 

Sarah Porter:
  When you were a little bit older you probably need a spare pair cuz a lot of things make you laugh a lot. 

Louise Minchin: 

This is gonna be music to your ears Richard. Not only do people need pants, they have spares as well. So tell us, Richard, obviously you set up this company Runderwear, why did you set it up? What was the sort of gap in the market that you saw? 

Richard Edmonds: 

Well to be honest it wasn't a gap in the market necessarily. It was solving a problem for ourselves. So a friend of mine, Jamie and I friends from university, both loved running. He ran the New York marathon, got really bad chafing and we were looking around the expo and kind of finding out there's nothing really out there to help runners. So we just made some for ourself initially. But then we went to our running club and all the women that we ran with at the running club said, “Well hang on a minute, I need this as well. Can you help us out?” And so it was a real kind of evolution. It was never a right, we want to go and earn loads of money and do this and do that. It was just solving a problem for us and our friends. 

Louise Minchin: 

And why do we get chafing when we're running in underwear? I mean I've got two pairs of pants that I used to run in and I still do and I call 'em my lucky pants and they're the only ones, for example, I will ever do a race in because I know they're like M &S, they're really old but I know that they won't cause me issues. So what's what's making the problem? 

Richard Edmonds: 

So for a lot of people wearing their normal underwear, they're full of seams so they're cut and so fabric. So you have the seams at the front and the side that can cause digging in and especially when you sweat and you get that salt through the sweat so can cause that irritation and rubbing also a lot of the waistbands are elasticated which are very sweaty and not very nice as well. And then really it's the material. Most of the people that are wearing their normal underwear, it's a cotton material which really holds that sweat and that can be really uncomfortable as well, and another reason that you can get chafing. 

Louise Minchin: 

So why do we need to wear pants? I mean I think maybe Mel's the revolutionary here and why do we need to wear pants when we’re running? 

Richard Edmonds: 

I think there's that confidence aspect as a big part of it as well. And also I've noticed, I've been running, I joined a running club at 13 years old and been running my whole life. It's shaped all of my life and I've noticed a real rise, particularly in women wearing, three quarter length leggings or leggings in particular. 

And I think a lot more, that's a real common thing now they're great but the problem is a lot of 'em are full of seams. Those waistbands with a draw string which can dig in as well. And just having that layer, especially our products which are seamless, having that extra layer then between the skin it just prevents any of those seams and those waistbands and things digging in and causing all that irritation when you're running. 

Louise Minchin:
  Sarah, tell me about what's your kind of experience. 

Sarah Porter: 

So kind of back to that thing with the seams really. So I tried loads of different pants across, tried to just wear my normal pants and then I probably started wearing Runderwear about five years ago and it's like revolutionary <laugh> cause they're so comfortable and they also, they just hold everything in. 

Louise Minchin: 

Yeah, absolutely. I mean presumably I don't wanna, oh my gosh this podcast is for men and women. So rich presumably that whole thing about holding things in as well is relevant. 

Richard Edmonds: 

Yeah I think, like I said earlier, such an organic process. You kind of sat with your friends at the running club and were all of those women were sort of like, look this is what I look for. I'd want something to hold me in. I need something a bit higher on the hips. We do all different styles now. It's evolved so depending on what you like. But that was definitely a big part where the line of that leggings or shorts comes up to having something to secure up to that point was really, really important and a really, really big thing. And just that softness as well and just feeling super comfortable. I think Sarah sort of started to allude to that but that kind of nice feeling against the skin. 

Louise Minchin: 

And tell me about the different kind of styles you do because lots of people are talking to me saying a boxer pants styles for women with no end seam to wear cycling instead of padded shorts. Now that's interesting as well. Have you looked at cycling too? 

Richard Edmonds: 

Yeah, a lot of people, like you said earlier, a lot of people do layer it underneath cycling stuff. But I think under anything, I think Sarah is sort of probably talking about our brief, which is our best seller. So that's the one that's hits high. So it's a bit higher up towards belly button and just keeps you nice and secure. We do a hipster which sits low on the hips, we do a full length version which I think Mel was wearing in the middle of the London marathon. So the full length short we do a half short, we do a G string as well. And so yeah, there's loads of different styles to choose 

Louise Minchin: 

Thank you so much everybody who's been in touch via the Her Spirit app, also the website as well. But I guess comforting, confident inducing kit allows me to wear it the start of the day until I train and therefore making me get outta the door and train easily and joyfully. I think that's a really good point isn't it? That you know gotta feel good. Well personally I like feeling good in my kit and if you start from the bttom layer then that's gonna help you in your exercise journey. Who wants to pick up that point? 

Mel Berry: 

I think it's a really important point Lou, that you raised because the whole confidence piece for women just came through. So we went out to our social channels at Her Spirit UK and within the community and I'd say nine outta 10 people that responded talked about confidence and this is wonderful one from Gillibob and we haven't spoken about bras is for running, it's all about the bra. But I'm now intrigued as to whether or not she'd have come on, she talks herself out of those. And I think what this podcast is starting to do with the support of yourself, Louise, is we're starting to raise that conversation for women to say what stops you from being more active? And if we can collaborate through brands such as Runderwear and ZOGGS and community and people like yourself, let's put it in context, 78% of women aren't active enough for health benefit and that's doubled during covid. And if you look at why women aren't active, it talks about women worried about being judged on their appearance during and after and it's gonna stop them. So we have to collaborate to be able to have conversations like this to say look the basics, your underwear or a swimsuit are things that are gonna give you that confidence to say, do you know what? I've got my armour on, I feel really strong and I feel really powerful. I'm gonna do anything that I want to. 

Louise Minchin: 

I'll come to you Charlotte in a minute with your, cuz I know that Her Spirit and Zoggs have done some amazing collaborations and I'll talk about that in a second and also I will come to bras in a bit because I think bras is a whole other subject Lisa.  Richard says pants that don't show under leggings don't move bigger gusset for example. I mean you've talked about that in some ways, but it is about, cause you don't don't want your pants to show either, do you? 

Richard Edmonds: 

No, definitely not. We get a lot of anti VPL campaigners coming through within our Runderwearers as all the people that follow us. It's really important and we've created our products so it doesn't show VPL and also that extra protection in the gusset as well. That extra layer also is in all about our briefs and hipsters. We've been a company that's always just listened and designed products around feedback from the community and that's why it's really good to have these open conversations and talking about it these subjects because then the brands like us that specialise in this can do something about it and help and provide solutions for people just cause like Mel was saying a minute ago, what you wanna do is ultimately we wanna stop any barrier to people doing exercise and whether that's the bra or the underwear, it's really important that we do that through creating these products. 

Louise Minchin: 

So let's talk about the issue about bras because I've had so many messages about and bras and fitting and this is just one example, Charlie Bird. How do we know what fits and how should fit? Lots of things about not having obviously and I say obviously maybe it's not that obvious actually having underwire in bras for example, for running. And my main issue and it seems to be echoed with the people that have been in touch with me is about fitting. So it's really, we're all quite used to I think as women being having our bra fitting or knowing our bra size. But why is it so difficult when it comes to sports bras? 

Richard Edmonds: 

Well I think, look, I obviously don't wear a bra. We have a brilliant team of people that work fantastically on our products, but I do know from, we work with the University of Portsmouth who are one of the  world leading institutions on bra and breast health when it comes to exercise. And they'll tell you that the difficulty is it takes a real big blend of things to come together to make a good bra. They talk about five different components that are an adjustable under band, moulded cups, encapsulation a high neck line and also the quality of the material that you're using. So if you add all those things, if you take a couple of those things out, you can really lose support, you can really lose comfort pretty quickly. So I think that's why it's more difficult because you have to get all of the blend of those elements together to make a really good sports bra. 

Louise Minchin: 

Right. Tell me if you can about breast health, should we be thinking about it when we're getting a fitting from that point of view? 

Richard Edmonds: 

Ultimately with these things you're better off getting a proper fitting or real good advice with a really good bra that's been tested rather than getting trying lots of cheaper bras that in the end are not gonna do the job. When it comes to breast movement and particularly things like running so high intensity exercise, your boobs can move up to 15 centimetres. So even on a light jog, so not even running pretty quickly and that's a huge amount. So reducing movement bounce is essential really to the health of this area. And I think that we started, this is two guys in a business, all transparency. We had no idea about this area but we had so many of our female customers that were buying underwear that just asked us said, “Look, the big brands are just not looking after us. Can you give the same attention that you've done to underwear in this area? Can you really focus on this area and help?” And it was so overwhelming. I think you found that with your posts today and you were talking earlier with how many people have responded, it was so overwhelming that as people are part of the running community, we felt like we had to try and really help and understand this. So obviously we've got experts in to help us and worked with University of Portsmouth, but it is such a key area, it's a real essential part of your kit as essential as a pair of running shoes. 

Louise Minchin: 

And I mean all I was watching everybody's faces when you said that your breast can move 15 centimetres and we were all, I'm gonna use that word again, aghast and that I think that is really key. It's about, again Mel, let's talk about this, it's about feeling comfortable, isn't it? Because the last thing you wanna be doing on a run and we all come in different shapes and sizes, don't we? But it was your boobs bouncing, it's embarrassing, it feels incredibly uncomfortable. There's so many reasons why you wanna get the right bra, aren't there? 

Mel Berry: 

100%. And I think one of the things that I struggled with is being determined by a number. I'm active and I guess as being five foot 10 and when someone said to me and open I'm 34 DD, I said, oh my god, I feel like Barbara Windsor and that judgment that I feel that I'm being judged by a number as well. But I've had bras in the past before that are just been so uncomfortable. And if you look at the statistics that are out there again women are saying look at that whole breast pain, that breast discomfort is just making the whole experience not a pleasant one. And that's why I think it's so important to say, look, get yourself fitted in terms of your bra use wonderful companies like Runderwear to understand what bras to wear. There are different bras to wear. So I wear a bra to run in and I wear a different bra to cycling because again that comfort. And I think both you and I Louise, we've done many endurance events and Sarah obviously you did the London Marathon this year. Just knowing that quite a vital part of your body is supported and helps goes a million miles. I mean when you ran and did Ironman distance events, what and how did you feel knowing that you got a suit under, you feel confident you got a good bra under there to make you feel that you don't feel exposed? 

Louise Minchin: 

Well some people don't wear, a lot of people don't wear wear. I mean a lot of people don't actually wear bras under tri suits. I do, but that's also, it's so individual isn't it? I was going for a run the other day, I mean I say I was going for a run cuz if you been watching my instagram, you'll know I'm on couch to 5k having had my knee operation, I'm starting all over again. And I was running with Susie Chan actually, and I'd left my bra at home and I'm just my sports bra, I'm like, oh my gosh, how am I gonna do this run? I can't run in my underwired bra. And actually, I mean thank goodness I text the turns of all the people in all the world who's got loads of kits. Susie is one of them. So she lent me one. So it's really important and again can make the difference between you not running whatever the exercise you want to do. Sarah, what's your experience? 

Sarah Porter: 

Yeah, definitely. So I mean this is a massive disclosure, but I had extremely large breasts and had a reduction for health reasons 15 years ago because I was just gettng horrific back problems. I couldn't do any sport because it was just far too uncomfortable. So I had a reduction and that massively changed my life. But what I couldn't do is I then didn't understand what bra to wear. And so I've gone through loads cuz I just didn't know and I, I've tried all sorts of bras and it is having, I think for me you've hit it on the head there about confidence and feeling comfortable and it can, it'll stop you going out the door. 

Louise Minchin: 

Which is absolutely the issue we're trying to deal with. Okay, so Rich actually, so I've been on your website and I to know you're on the podcast and everything but it was really good. It was really good and it was, as I said, I struggled, struggled during lockdown, I never found a bra, I had to send them all back but actually you actually make it really straighoorward and measure how to do the measurements. And I sent 'em off and Mel was like, really? I'm like, yep, that's what the website says. And what you were spot on. It was absolutely and that's the first time. So how is it, how do you make sure that people are getting the right one because for me at least it really did work. 

Richard Edmonds: 

So we have a bra size finder and we ask a series of questions and we get an idea at that point around the size that we think you are. This is obviously information that we've managed to work out over time, how best to use this and how that works with Runderwear. We also have a brilliant team of bra specialists at Runderwear now who are just over the phone. We've done virtual fittings as well in the past with people answering questions and it's also a free exchange service. So if you don't get it right first time you can exchange it, no problem. It's really no fuss. It really easy. And it's just so important because one of the things we had a lot of people talking to us about was there's still this huge amount of sports bras which are in small, medium, large, extra large. They're not even in cup sizes and proper sizes to really fit people. And although it's hard, we're not a huge business and it's difficult. We do 63 sizes, we'd love to do more and our goal is that we will, but we do 63 sizes already and it's just really, really, really important. We've found from our female customers that you do that you can use that exchange process no problem. And just until you get it spot on. 

Louise Minchin: 

But just as a small business, 63 sizes is really something to take on. And Mel, you know, and Holly at Her Spirit do really good work. You're working with ZOGGS on things all the time. You are talking to companies aren't you? 

Mel Berry: 

100%. And that's why through a mutual friend that's obviously part of Runderwear team now is we said, look, we know that women really struggling and thank you so much Sarah for sharing what is obviously quite a personal story to you. And this is another one from Gemma who's our physio and she said, having recently tried the wonderful Runderwear sports bra, I realise how little support I have actually had in my previous sports bras when running and completing Hiit training.  We have to raise the conversation because so many women and I think the one word that I hear that shines through is confident. I don't feel confident enough because I feel that I'm gonna be judged and I don't wanna do that. And the women down here and Rich I’m sure, you know echo it in your customers and yourself is we are not as confident as we think and it's so easy why not to do something. 

And that's again that point is we have to collaborate to give solutions. So Rich you talk about we're not there at the moment but we wanna be better. And we've worked with Charlotte and the team at ZOGGS when we delivered and developed the silver thermal line suit. And one of the questions I'd love to ask yourself Richard and Charlotte is the average size of a woman in the UK is size 16, but we develop products for women that are size 12 to 14. I mean, where do you start and where should we start to make sure we're developing the right product for the women in the UK now? 

Louise Minchin: 

Charlotte, should we talk to you then let's talk about swimming costumes because I've already said that I few years ago literally used to go to the pool in my tri suit because I just didn't want people, I don't know, I just felt embarrassed, which is just seems a shame you put that way a shame. So Charlotte, how when you're looking at designing suits, how do you do it? 

Charlotte: 

Well for us it is about real women creating suits for real swimmers. So everything ZOGGS is all around is about swimming, whether that's in the pool or open water. And our designers have been working very closely with the likes of Her Spirits and other partners to develop products that are really fit for purpose. So that involves really talking to the community Her Spirit were amazing in helping us conduct research to really understand what people want from their suits and very much testing on people as well as fitting. 

Louise Minchin:
  What is it people want do you think? And that what wasn't being delivered beforehand? 

Charlotte: 

Okay, sure. So for us, we actually did some research quite recently with our database and what people want is that those support levels, they want different size different sizes as you guys have already covered different size suits for different kind of body shapes as well. So we actually go up to size 26, but we make sure that those larger sizes are really flattering and make women feel very confident in those suits. So the designers are very in tune with what actually will help support those ladies and make them feel fantastic in the water. And I think that's what ZOGGS is all about. 

Louise Minchin:
  So what difference do you think can it make? And let's talk about confidence first of all? 

Charlotte: 

Definitely. So I think having the right suit can really change your attitude as you go towards your swim. Whether that's a pool swim or open water. I think it doesn't actually matter what size you are, I think whether you're a bit smaller or larger, we're all women, we're all kind of worried about how everyone judges our body. So I think it's all about feeling empowered in your suit, feeling fantastic and making sure that our swimsuits really flatter and enhance your personality and that's what all our silver swimwear was really about that Her Spirit kind of helped us develop. 

Louise Minchin: 

So I've got a few questions for you. Soph says do you have swimming costumes for example, for larger boobs that are supportive but not under wired? 

Charlotte: 

Oh yeah, absolutely. We have fixed foam cups so they are sewn into the suit so they won't move around and you won't lose them in the washing machine. But we have different features that even the design of the suit can also flaLer a bust in terms of either the kind of height of the kind of suit and things like that. So we've got lots of features that can support different body shapes. 

Louise Minchin:
  Interesting. Joe says she's looking for swimsuits for long torso, she says they're a real struggle to find. 

Charlotte: 

Oh definitely. Something like a scoop back is a really one of the ZOGGS best sellers. So that really flats most body shapes. But we also do the scoop back with an adjustable strap, so that means you can make that bit longer for your body and likewise a bit shorter if you've got a shorter torso as well. 

Louise Minchin: 

I mean are really changing my whole kind of perspective on all of this as well because I didn't really, you know what I mean, it never occurred to me. Of course you could have, if you had something that's adjustable, it make a massive difference wouldn't it? Or on the straps like you would a bra which is really, really yeah, definitely really good. Tell me about how do we ensure a good fit? Is it, cause it's quite awkward even trying on swim suits, isn't it? Because of obviously hygiene issues and all of that? 

Charlotte: 

Yeah, I mean you can actually try 'em on at your local leisure centre. We also have a great returns policy on our website, but we've got plenty of advice and guidance all around kind of our fit. Obviously we have different fabric types so we explain that on our website. So we try and give as much guidance and we're next year is a really big year for us in terms of body positivity and making people feel amazing in their swimsuits. So we are going to be doing a lot more kind of work in terms of explaining how to fit your suit. Lots more online tutorials and videos. So there's lots more to come;. 

Louise Minchin: 

Tell us about Mel. So let's talk about the silver swimwear because you were part of the sort design team, was it you? What happened? 

Mel Berry: 

The reason that we work with Zoggs on that silver line suit is people like me and Louise, you struggle with the cold as well. It was about how do you then give yourself a bit more of a fighting chance to then keep and retain that heat. So the silver suit and the fabric that then retains up to 30% of your body heat, which means you can swim for longer. 

Charlotte:
  Yeah, it's actually sixty. 

Mel Berry:
  How many Charlotte? 

Charlotte: 

60%. So yeah, it helps, I mean it's quite obvious when you think about it. You know, do your marathons and you wrap up in your silver. So if you think about the technology, it's all about reflecting your core heat and that's why it works so fantastically and it just makes you feel just that little bit of extra warmth and it's not about giving anyone kind of false sense of security. There's obviously safety that you have to think about when it's swimming open water. But we wanted to design something that was fit for purpose that made looked fantastic from the outside. And people are loving the silver. I've seen some people wear it inside out. So that just shows how 

Louise Minchin:
 I love it inside out. 

Charlotte: Exactly. 

Louise Minchin: 

So mean there seems to me, I mean Mel and I are, we are long time swimmers and very passionate about it, but there seems to have really been this extraordinary explosion hasn't there in open water swimming. And how have you seen that develop and where do you see it going? 

Charlotte: 

Oh definitely. So obviously with Covid I think people started exploring the open water. It was a chance to engage with swimming in a different sense that they may have never done before. And I think people are now realising that the huge benefits from open water swimming, that's goes from the mental health side of it or to do with building a community and being part of something and just doing something different. I mean sometimes just swimming in a pool can just be a little bit monotonous. So actually being part of the community enjoying a nice hot drink and some cake afterwards is always a good motivation as well. And I think that it's only going to grow. There's some fantastic venues now they're seeing huge increase in participation of swimmers and I think the market's just moved on. We're creating products that are relevant for this type of swim as well. And I know that ZOGGS is on a mission to continue that. We've got some great innovation coming down the line. 

Louise Minchin: 

Which sounds really exciting. And they, you're right Mel, you're talking about, and I think it was you Charlotte mentioning they are really, they're fun swimsuits, particularly the silver ones. And those are the ones I know of your products most mostly. But they're fun. And I suppose what swimming is meant to bring in our lives or can bring to so many of us, isn't it make us feel lighter in life. 

Charlotte: 

You've put the nail on head. That's exactly what we said about and when designing these suits was to be, we've got some fantastic products out in the range already, but we wanted to have a clear kind of different look and feel and to reflect the community and these ladies are brave, they're bold and they want to celebrate them, their bodies and their community and that's exactly what we wanted to do. And the designers just really nailed it. 

Louise Minchin:
  I've got the mermaid one, which I love or the little, I've got the one with it, I think it makes me feel like a mermaid. I don't know if that's you designed it, but that's how it makes me feel <laugh>, which is good, Isn't it? 

Charlotte: Definitely. 

Mel Berry: 

But I think the authenticity piece was so important is the women that were in that focus group all through with their own personalities. And that's why the different styles shine through on that one. And you've been doing some colder water swimming with the people, like the wonderful people like Kath Pendleton that helped us. Kath Pendleton was kind of brilliant, Kerrie Ann Payne. It's about the passion and the tribe. And that's what we set out to achieve, wasn't it Charlotte? We wanted to raise a conversation, we wanted to make women feel invincible, we wanted to make women feel really proud. And through Her Spirit we've given women the opportunity to be front and centre of all the advertising. So the front page that you see on the dog's website, the brilliant George Pollock and Jane Miller, they are the celebrities. I mean Charlotte, I have to say I cannot believe that they are on the front page of zoggs.com and I'm not, What happens, where am I? 

Charlotte: 

If you know, but yeah, no, we had such a fantastic shoot and got to know some amazing community members of Her Spirit that we just love seeing them in ZOGGs because they represent our audience. They are our swimmers, so they are our community too. And I think that's what works so well with the partnership between ZOGGS and Her Spirit. So we've got been on the front page of Outdoor Summer magazine with Her Spirit on zoggs.com. We've had emails go out, it's about celebrating real women and her spirit does that fantastically and alongside the challenges, whether that's a newbie to it, it's so supportive and I think that's what works so well is it's about how whatever type of swimmer you are, just get involved. 

Louise Minchin: 

And to that point about whatever type of swimmer you are, should you be looking at, I mean obviously oh she's, Mel is advertising the winter challenge. You can tell us about that in a second. Should you think I swim everywhere. I swim in open water, I swim with a wetsuit, I swim in a swimming pool. I don't really actually I wear, should I be thinking about which costume I'm wearing in each place? Obviously the silver one when it's really cold. But anything particular about where you're swimming, 

Charlotte: 

Well definitely mean we, our swimwear can be warm however you want to wear it. That that's predominantly, I think that's empowerment of the swimmer themselves. But we do have swimwear, the silver has been specifically designed to keep you a bit warmer for longer but I wore it in the pool the other day. The pools are gettng a little bit colder. So I very much enjoyed that. But not only that, we have materials that are chlorine proof so they last a bit longer. Chlorine, if you swim many times a week then you might want to think about longevity of your suits. But it's all about having fun, it's about feeling amazing and we've got plenty of suits to whatever type of swim you are. 

Louise Minchin: Go Mel 

Mel Berry: 

Be, yeah, I was gonna say it was another community post from the Wonderful Stacey and it's interesting on the confidence but the colour point and she said I'm yet to find the right kit for any sport I do. But I think that maybe to do with my own woes about my body and the changes going on. I'm also not aware of brightly coloured clothes and all the options at the moment seem to be busy patterns and bright colours. I've tried them and I don't like them bring back black. Tried say that quickly. So Stacey,  Charlotte is here to welcome you with open arms cuz you can get a black Zoggs suit, right? 

Charlotte 

Oh definitely. Yeah, we've got some really flattering styles whether you want something a bit more sporty. We also have our kind of leisure suits which are a bit more flattering in terms of ruching to make you feel more confident. Yeah, I mean check out zoggs.com we've got some amazing black suits for you and great offers that we do with Her Spirit as well. 

Louise Minchin: 

And back to my point there shame swimming in my suit. I mean I swam in my tri suit because I liked it cuz it had shorts. Do you have swimming? Swimming suits with shorts as well? 

Charlotte 

We've got a tri suit that we're going to be launching for sure. So that's actually in a very flattering black as well. And again that's been all swim tested and it's designed to make you feel amazing and it is about feeling great. We've got knee suits as well, which are fantastic. A bit of extra coverage on the shoulders as well. So we've got suits for everybody shape and we are actually talking about bringing in some swim shorts as well because some ladies wanna wear shorts. I mean you should be able to wear what makes you feel confident and hopefully with community support you'll start to realise that actually it's less about what you look like and how you feel in the water because you'll feel weightless, you'll feel that freedom and you'll feel amazing.

 Mel Berry: 

I think one of the other things that's really important to pick up on about is covering, So Lou, our wonderful friend, Dr. Nighat Arif. Well and she went on a journey to learn to swim

Louise Minchin:
 Exactly what I was just thinking. 

Mel Berry: 

Yeah, great minds. And it was wonderful because I reached out to Charlotte and the team and I said, look, Nighat really struggling because she needs to have a decency suit. Do you have anything? And you know, sent her one. And it was really interesting that when she posts about her journey and then her journey was about wanting to have a life skill because it's really important for her and everybody to have that life skill. And you can look at the drowning statistics and they're pretty scary. But she wanted to show to both of her, wanna show her kids that she could do something and it was really important but you gave her the confidence because you enabled her to have a suit that was covered. So any woman that thinks I can't do it because of my religious beliefs can, that's not a barrier. 

Charlotte: 

Yeah definitely. We have modesty suits and again they've designed to swim in. So the clever features that the designers put in that I wouldn't even think of is connecting up the pieces so that when you swim it they don't kind of create any drag back and things like that. So it's really important for us to make everything accessible for people and make their swims enjoyable because that's what swimming is all about is about fun. Louise touched on it earlier and that is definitely part of the ZOGGS DNA. 

Louise Minchin: 

Rich, anything you want to add to the swimming? The swimming kind of conversation before? I'm gonna ask Mel cuz she's probably gonna make us all do a swimming challenge. Just warning you. Just warning you. 

Richard Edmonds: 

No, I mean I think I saw sounds absolutely brilliant. I mean I've been on a swim journey myself. I grew up in Leicester, I was furthest point from the sea did the kind of swimming lessons as a kid and recently did it so I could complete my first triathlon. My wife is a swimmer and she filmed me actually we went on holiday with the kids and she filmed me and I thought it was in slow motion like the Slowmo camera on your phone. And I said, surely you've just, She said, no, that is actually you. And I was like, alright, I've gotta learn to swim. So it set a kind of journey and we live on the south coast now. She does triathlon actually like uni. She did the age group world championships this summer so 

Louise Minchin:
  Wow. Did she God, but congratulations to her. Well Done 

Richard Edmonds:
  Yeah, so she's been sort of my inspiration to learn and we live now by the sea on the South coast. So again the open water thing, this has been brilliant to listen to super inspiring cuz now I'm gone from quite not worried but not very confident to now I'm able to swim in the sea. And yeah, swimming is 

something I found in my sort of mid to late thirties, which I think for anybody out there it's something, any of these things you can pick it at any Time in your life. I didn't swim since I was five years old and then picked it up and tried to do it. 

Louise Minchin: 

Rich. I love that story and I always tell people, they go, Oh you're such a good swimmer. I'm like, it is not too late. And it's such a wonderful thing to learn as Mel makes the point. It's a life skill as well. But thank you so much because that kind of story makes me, I dunno why it makes me really emotional cause I love swimming so much. So to have missed out on it, I feel kind of like, I'm so glad you're in. So that's really great. So Mel's gonna make us now make us she think to encourage us, aren't you to enjoy? To enjoy, Yes. I'm gonna say enjoy the winter swim challenge. What is it Mel, and what do we need to do? 

Mel Berry: 

It's all about enjoy enjoyment. And it's great that you once again joining Louise that I know you had loved it last year, but the winter swim challenge is all about regularity. So we kicked off on a very spooky Sunday morning where Sarah joined us. So it's all about regularity. So we started on the 31st of October and you go all the way through to the 26th of March, you get this wonderful swim cap at the start and then you get your swim cap at the end. Support through people like Kerrie Ann Payne to be able to give you confidence that it's okay to go into cold water and you choose your time. I for one, are choosing a very low number of minutes to then be able to swim. But I'm sure Sarah, I know that you are somebody that probably has a much bigger total, cuz you talked about swimming in the sea this morning. 

Sarah Porter: 

Yes, but I think it's, that's down to access as well. I'm lucky cuz I'm on the south coast Rich, so maybe we could have a little swim, 

Richard Edmonds:
  Go for a swim and then we'll get our chafe free pants on and go for a run 

Sarah Porter:
  And run down the prom!

Louise Minchin:
 <laugh>. Love it. 

Sarah Porter: 

Yeah, so see I think it's about access for me. I can swim every day, I'm very lucky. But it is that regularity. I think the longer you leave it, you then talk yourself out of it again. Your mind's very clever isn't it? And it talks you out something. But actually if you just do a few minutes and actually everything that we've learned two minutes is the same as 20 minutes and that will give you that little thing that helps you through your day. 

Louise Minchin: 

Mel, you'd be really proud of me. So I'm trying to get back to my running and so I've made a deal with myself and I feel I'm gonna have to now gonna have to do this tomorrow is at the end. So I'm very lucky and I live very near a river and I promise you every week for the last few weeks at the end of my run I get in the river and I don't bother even changing my leggings or anything, I just get in the river pretty much fully dressed, stay there for a minute, a half and then do you know what? I don't even have to run home. It's awful gettng in. It's really, really cold. As you know Sarah, we talked about this earlier, the rivers are cold now but it is amazing but it's that mental leap. So Mel, how do we take that little me? How do I persuade myself I finished my run right, come on Louise you’re gonna get in. 

Mel Berry:
  I think it's about that. 

Louise Minchin:
  Sarah, you maybe you can do it. I dunno. 

Mel Berry: 

I think my point and it is interesting Sarah, yours, it's just that self belief, myself and Sarah and many Her spirit coaches were with a wonderful professor, Mike Tipton and he said that if you can get in two minutes, so Louise, you need to go for 30 seconds more to then be able to get bang for your buck. And it's about community, all of this podcast. ..

Louise Minchin:
  Oh I've gotta do two minutes?

Mel Berry: Two minutes

Louise Minchin:
 What's the magic thing about two minutes. 

Mel Berry: 

Two minutes is when your body then gets its greatest bang for its buck. So on Sunday when people were saying to me stay in longer, I was like, no, because Professor Mike Tipton told me that I only needed to stay in for two minutes as I was kind of running out!

Louise Minchin: 

Yeah, I mean I would think two minutes, minutes and five seconds is gonna be my just two minutes. I'm gonna go for two minutes. Mel. Listen, it's been an absolute joy to talk to you all. I'm gonna let you go cuz we've talked for ages and I knew this was gonna be a good podcast. Richard, Charlotte, thank you both very much indeed. And good news for us Her Spiriters, if you got all the way here in the pod, there is a benefit because they're both giving special things to us because of it. If you go to Runderwear and you're buying something and you use the code Runderwear 10, they are going to give money, aren't they Mel, to tell me where 

Mel Berry: 

They're giving it to Breast Cancer Now and through that donation they're gonna help us get to a hundred grand. That's our kind of big total. So please, please use that code at the checkout.

Louise Minchin:
 Runderwear10. And how far are you now with the total? 

Mel Berry: 

We are over 75,000 through the support of people like Runderwear. We believe that we can get to 80. So look, we're still there. We've got a wonderful raffle. Buy your raffle. You could win a signed book by Louise Minchin and so much more. 

Louise Minchin: 

Yeah, you can <laugh>, I'll make it personally signed. Actually, Mel, I've ordered some more so I can give you more. I only had two left. I can see them on the shelf and there's more arriving tomorrow so I can probably give you more than two <laugh> run out of my own supplies and my own book. It's called Dare to Try by the way, everybody. Anyway, why don't you buy a ticket and see if you can win it. And also thank you very much to ZOGGS as well because they are offering us a discount, which is fantastic. You need to use the code. I'll repeat it. HSPOD15, that's 15% off any of their products until January the 31st HSPOD15. So go use that and you'll get a discount. But that's really nice of them. And I just, Mel, just kind of on a sort of side note the whole thing about this being a really interesting conversation, but I do think it's about that, it's about confidence, it's about us all feeling good, about our shape, our size. We're all different. We all, many of us have kind of difficult complex things around our own bodies. And I think whatever we can do or whatever the work you're doing that they're doing to help is fantastic. 

Mel Berry: 

Yeah, it's about raising conversations. And this isn't just about saying well be more active because it's about giving women the confidence. It's about releasing the inner warrior. It's giving women that confidence to say, do you know what? I've got the great product and I've got a great community and I can achieve anything I truly want to.

Louise Minchin: 

Yep. Oh, you're brilliant. Thank you so much. Thank you to Sarah, thank you to Mel, Richard and Charlotte for taking time to talk to me today. Don't forget to head to herspirit.co.uk. Lots of brilliant tips, pieces of advice, challenges you can sign up to do. Sign up for that winter swim challenge. It's fun. Lots of things going on at the moment. Anything from beginners to advance, you'll get all the support you need. Just head to herspirit.co uk. Please come join in the conversations as well on Facebook on Instagram. Find us at Her Spirit UK. You can also find me cuz I'm often posting about Her Spirity things aren't I? Mel @LouiseMinchin on Insta. also we'll add the episode notes, so we'll put both those discount codes in the episode notes and add a link to where you can find full transcription, oh, love those,  of the episode as well if you want to check back on any of the advice. 

And thank you so much for listening as always. I'm Louise Minchn, I'm gonna be a cold water swimmer by the end of this winter <laugh> even more than I am already. 

The next episode and last, goodness me for 2022 of the Her Spirit podcast will be arriving on Monday the 5th of December. It is gonna be all about menopause because it has already been menopause month, but this is an ongoing conversation, very much part of what we do at Her Spirit, until then, have fun. Go swim, go run. Don't chafe! Bye!